2nd June 2010

“The numbers don't lie: the more religious a country is, the worse people behave in their private lives.”

Gwynne Dyer

33 Responses to “2nd June 2010”

  1. Holysmokes Says:

    It must be from all that bottled up emotion.

  2. an american scientist Says:

    Being curious about “the numbers” I tracked the quote to here:
    where Dr. Dyer refers to a detailed article in the Journal of Religion and Society 7 (2005):
    The reported correlation for some (not all) of the statistics is stunning.

  3. solomon Says:

    The quote is silly enough to presumed a direct relation between religious & bad behaviour as if its a mathematical formula. Theoreticaly when one abides wholly on religion, bad practice or behaviour will practically becomes nil. All of these unwanted behaviors or outcomes are caused by other reasons which are not revealed (homosex.. so and so)

  4. solomon Says:

    The Atheists are living in a world of make belief. In a world where toys have no toymaker.

  5. Demonaura Says:

    And theists who troll atheist sites with silly little quotes are delusional enough to think that they have the key to the kingdom of god.

    Not that anyone could ever convince you that you were wrong about something anyways.

  6. Atheist MC Says:

    Fascinating artical. Thanks to an american scientist for tracking it down.
    I particularly liked this bit

    Indeed, the data examined in this study demonstrates that only the more secular, pro-evolution democracies have, for the first time in history, come closest to achieving practical “cultures of life” that feature low rates of lethal crime, juvenile-adult mortality, sex related dysfunction, and even abortion. The least theistic secular developed democracies such as Japan, France, and Scandinavia have been most successful in these regards. The non-religious, pro-evolution democracies contradict the dictum that a society cannot enjoy good conditions unless most citizens ardently believe in a moral creator.

    Which is almost self evident if you compare the countries named to places like Iran for example but not so obvious if you look at the U.S until someone does the stats.

  7. Grumpy Old Git Says:

    Fascinating article. Thanks to American Scientist for the links. I have a theory that most human endeavour is driven by the interaction of fear and greed, individually and collectively (the underlying teachings of the main religions). If this could be measured or quantified, I would love to know of any research that has been done to support my theory or otherwise.

  8. tech Says:

    Mc ,Which american scientist are you refering to?

  9. tech Says:

    I wonder how Mr.dyer knows what going on in people private lives. he must be a nosey guy.

  10. tech Says:

    Just because a country is Religious doesn’t mean they are perfect.

  11. Atheist MC Says:

    This one of course. Do you actually read the comments?

  12. Atheist MC Says:

    I wonder how Mr.dyer knows what going on in people private lives. he must be a nosey guy.

    Try reading the linked article. It really has nothing to do with private morality and everything to do with national crime rates, social inclusion etc.

  13. Holysmokes Says:

    I’m more interested in why? You would think that people who believe that a reckoning will fall upon them someday, would “straighten up and fly right.” Why purposely put yourself in the hot seat with your maker? Of course christians believe they can do and get away with anything, so long long as they ask for forgiveness. Many of their cults, such as baptists, have the entire bible whittled down to one saying. “All I have to do is accept jesus christ as my savior and I’ll go to heaven. It makes me wonder what in hell the rest of the bible is for? Ahhh, but I digress. Anyhow, what does the forum think actually causes this crime phenomena in religious countries?

  14. Devout Atheist Says:

    Holysmokes nailed it. It’s always easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

  15. Atheist MC Says:

    I think it is precisely because scripture is such a poor moral compass. Anything not strictly prohibited is allowed, and quite a lot of socially divisive things are actually mandated (slavery, misogyny, homophobia, slaying of infidels). There is also the tribal aspect. Anyone not of your race or religion is pretty much fair game and doesn’t count.
    Atheists actually have to think about their morality and come to conclusions about what is acceptable based on the society they inhabit, which as long as it is unfettered by too much religion will have moved beyond scripture.

  16. tech Says:

    MC you still haven’t answered my question. In you 8:53 quote?

  17. Atheist MC Says:

    MC you still haven’t answered my question. In you 8:53 quote?

    Yes I did it was in my 11.05 Comment

  18. Rozmarija Grauds Says:

    I can see that if individuals are not allowed space in which to OBSERVE societal intereactions around them, but are raised on the narrow diet of Thou Shalt Not, then it’s easy to see how they can’t deal with ongoing situations. Several business people with whom I had contact during a lifetime, said they would never hire anyone who had served as altar-boy when young.

  19. Bornagain A. Theist Says:

    tech, hover your mouse over the blue words in AMC’s answers; there may appear an underline when you do. At that point, click your left mouse button. Those are called “hot links”. They are fairly common on the internet. They refer to a location where additional data can be viewed. If you will look toward the beginning of today’s comments, you will notice that the second comment was made by “an american scientist”. His comment also contains some hot links. Now it should all fit. And FYI, I do not believe you will ever find AMC unwilling or unable to respond to any reasonable inquiry. He is a person of reason and logic, you see…


  20. GoodWithoutGod Says:

    The young Muslim remembered the words of his misguided uncle as he strapped the explosives to his chest: “Theoreticaly (sic) when one abides wholly on religion, bad practice or behaviour will practically becomes (sic) nil”

    And then he laughed. He he he….

  21. solomon Says:

    Don’t the Atheists ever wonder, of all the heavenly bodies in this universe, only the earth have countless living things. Even its closest neighbour, the moon, hardly shows signs of life. Does this demonstrate a state of the art work, as if theres the intervention of powerful intelligent hands. No…the Atheists won’t wonder. They will choose to ignore. This perfectly shows that they are the inhabitants of HELL!

  22. solomon Says:

    Rosmarija Grauds, hiring an ex altar boy is not the reason for success or failure to one’s business. You must have come across on some bogus businessman with silly thoughts.

  23. solomon Says:

    Sorry…Rosmarija should spell Rozmarija

  24. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    Thanks for posting the context, AmSci. The conclusions section would very much surprise theists.

  25. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    ‘You would think that people who believe that a reckoning will fall upon them someday, would “straighten up and fly right.”’

    – But they are also told they are worms, pathetic sinners, worthless before god. They CAN’T HELP sinning because they are what god made them. But it’s OK because you can say “sorry God, J-dizzle is my man” and all is forgiven. To think that the mindset promoted by this debasement and special pleading leads to more ethical behavior is, to borrow from Hitchen’s, enough to make a cat laugh.

  26. Holysmokes Says:

    Captain, after pondering this for part of the day, I’d have to agree with your comments.

  27. Edmond Says:

    Solomon, I don’t think there’s anyone wondering why there’s only life on the Earth, because no one KNOWS if there’s life anywhere else. You speak as if you KNOW that the rest of the universe is empty of life, but how could you know this? Did you travel to every planet there is? Have you visited the entire universe? It certainly COULD be filled with MANY forms of life. I think it is likely.

    But what if there is no other life? What if humans are the only ones? What in the world is all that extra space FOR? Why so much emptiness? Why such a big universe for hardly anybody at all? You think a god did it, well, why? Why not just make a TINY universe, since this planet is all there is? The religious model of the universe does not fit the facts.

    Atheists don’t ignore. We question, we probe, we wonder. What we DON’T do is ASSUME we have the answers. We don’t speculate on supernatural causes that have no evidence. We rely on what can be seen and felt and measured.

    It is only religious believers who don’t wonder, because they think they already know.

  28. Holysmokes Says:

    Well said Edmund.

  29. solomon Says:

    Edmond, a chicken feed common lame comment which I feel too lazy to respond due to its silliness.

  30. Edmond Says:

    Ok, Sol, if it’s too tough for you, you can skip it.

    Any other theists care to field it? Gigantic, voluminous space? Teeny tiny Earth? Make sense?

  31. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    I think you scared him, Ed.

  32. solomon Says:



  33. Edmond Says:

    Well, that’s an interesting sound, but it’s not really an answer. Though, I’m not really looking for answers anyway, I don’t really believe there ARE any to be found. I’m just looking for some debate on the subject.

    Instead of going ka-ka-ka, do you have anything to say on the subject of the size of the universe? If there’s a god that loves us so much and created everything just for us, WHY did it create so MUCH of everything? And why is it all so EMPTY?

    Don’t you enjoy the fact that the size and nature of the universe keeps you guessing? I love it. When it comes to feeling “wonder”, it seems like religion would severly limit this ability, by presupposing answers ahead of real research. Astronomy does not support the myth that the moon was once split in two. Biology does not support the idea that some animals are “unclean”. Science provides me with far more wonder than scripture ever could.