22nd July 2010

“Secularists, even atheistic secularists, are not the anti-Christ. Most of them live their lives as well or as badly as fervent Christians. They pay their taxes, they don't kill other people, and they don't molest children. They keep the law and behave decently because they believe that humanity is the highest form of life. And they object very strongly to being told that they are slavering monsters of depravity because they don't believe in a supernatural being.”

Emer O'Kelly

33 Responses to “22nd July 2010”

  1. Atheros Says:

    Or being told that we are all going to your imaginary Hell, eh Sol 🙂

  2. solomon Says:

    Yeah…they did’nt do all of the above(quote)..
    But they can’t resist one despicable act.
    Fu***ng mans ass.
    And they will all be going to !!HELL!! Atheros, either its imaginary or not.

  3. Atheist MC Says:

    atheistic secularists, are not the anti-Christ

    Of course theologically the “anti-christ” is a specific entity in revelations, not a generic term for immoral or evil person.
    Pedantry apart, moral beheaviour is not reliant on religion as it stems from innate behaviour evolved thtough millenia in response to being a social species. Altrusim is such a basic behaviour it is seen in many non mammalian species too. Religion coopted behaviour already recognised it as good and used it to its own ends.

  4. Hypatia Says:

    sol:

    But they can’t resist one despicable act.

    So there are no gay believers then sol?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_Muslims

  5. solomon Says:

    Gay muslims could’nt be termed as muslims.
    They have gone out of the religion.
    Just a fabricated lies by the Atheists.

  6. Eric Martin Says:

    This is a quotation with which I agree almost completely. My only quibble is that I think the description of humanity as “the highest form of life” is anthropocentric and that it does not add to the otherwise excellent point that Emer O’Kelly makes.

    Atheists behave decently because they want to be treated decently too – responsibilities and rights must co-exist for a fair society.

  7. tech Says:

    I understand sol when he says they are no longer in the religion. Its just the same as saying a practising gay person is a Christian.You are or you are not.There is no in between.

  8. Atheist MC Says:

    This is explicitly not troll feeding so certain people need not comment. But the gay issue is a clear cut area where religious “morality” is just plain wrong. The deontological nature of revealed wisdom means that objective and rational sources of moral behaviour are disregarded and persecution follows.
    Sol is right in that gay muslims are not realy muslim by the stupidly rigid measure of faith that religion demands.
    Tech is on less secure ground as theologically there is no christian concensus on the issue (witness the current imminent schisms in the anglican tradition). The most you can get from the scripture is you can’t be gay and an orthodox jew.
    The point is that none of this speaks to morality. Homosexuality, or any sexuality for that matter between consenting adults is in fact morally neutral insofar as it does not impact on anyone other than the participants. This is an objective conclusion impossible to arrive at via scripture, ergo scripture is wrong.

  9. robb Says:

    hey sol……………

    what’s a ” True Believer” like you doing hanging around this website, anyway ?
    i think you’re a plant………..generated by whoever owns/runs this site for
    some reason i cant get.

    however, it would be fun if you WERE real……….cause you’re so easy to
    pick on !!!!

    so, to whoever is playing ” SOL ” i say keep it up !!! you’re portraying a
    fairly accurate picture of the fuzzy thinking that so cripples our world.

  10. EdgarWing Says:

    Even the morality of the religious is not based ultimately in their religion. They pick and choose which parts to follow and which to ignore, presumably based on some external “moral” sensibilities.

  11. BoB Says:

    I have to agree with robb. What is sol doing here? Maybe he knows deep down he is a “slavering monster” like the rest of us, he just needs some coercing to own up to it. It’s ok sol, I was once religious. It was when I realized that I was religious because of fear instead of desire or “belief” that i knew something was intrinsically wrong. I was 19 at the time but in your case its better late than never!

    Regarding this quote, my comment on fearing god can be related to why a lot (I think the majority) of Athiests are, at the very least, least decent people. It takes a conscious choice and personal committment by an athiest to be a good person. I find this to be much more commendable than a person who chooses only to ACT like a good person for fear of going to hell. A majority of religious persons (not all, there are a lot of good people that are religious) don’t even go as far as to ACT like a good person, but just use the cop-out of confessing their sins and, in the eyes of religion, wiping their moral slates clean. This has always baffled me, even in my religious hayday. If a murderer on trial confesses to the jury that he has sinned and he feels badly for it.. would he be released? Completely asinine….

  12. solomon Says:

    No matter how the Atheists thinks, twists, lied, ignore, they don’t have to confuse themselves or others. They can’t run away from truth that they themselves knew it & tries hard to brush it away from their minds. Don’t worry !!!HELL!! will get them.

  13. solomon Says:

    “Who create the 1st design. A question the Atheists can’t answer”

    Na…na.. na.na na…….

  14. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    I agree with the quote but for the “highest form of life” bit. I’ll agree Home is A form of life but not the highest. Evolution isn’t striving for some pinnacle of perfection beyond what makes one fit in ones environment. We’re merely the smartest creature currently running the show. This wasn’t always the case and will not necessarily always be the case.

    Sol:
    1. Atheists don’t believe in hell so you seem like a silly child when you try and scare us with one.

    2. Atheists don’t believe there was a first design. We don’t know how the 14 billion year old universe came to be but “I don’t know” is a far better answer than asserting with no proof the “god done it”. We may never know. It’s OK not to.

    3. Homosexuality has always been with our species at apparently the same rates as today. Given how rapidly our population has grown it’s clearly not an issue to our survival. Other animals are homosexual too. Only your twisted religion makes you think of some people as evil for their nature. So, when you come out of the closet and are rejected by your co-religionists you’ll find a world of secularists that really don’t care that you are gay.

  15. Margaret Says:

    I think some people fantasize about Hell, all the bodies writhing around together, a sadist’s dream, and a fine example of religious morality. Act nice or the Bad Man in the Sky will roast you. What a prick.
    I do not want to waste my time on earth worshipping a monster. I have a theory, that if God (with a big G) actually exists, he is higher than anything humanity has imagined. He/It/She is testing each individual by issuing forth the cruel illogical dogma religious fanatics spew forth. Those who accept such an inferior “carrot and stick” childish morality are deemed morally inferior. Those who question, and learn, and exert self-control to live decent lives because it is the right thing to do, those individuals are living a higher moriality, and pass the test. Perhaps it is we who will be rewarded, and the religious fanatics will be consigned to the flames with stunned looks on their faces. Then we, with our higher morality, will rescue them, and they serve us forever. Ha Ha.
    Hey, that scenario is just as likely as any imagined scene leaping from the religious mind. And if a God does exist, perhaps He/It/She is perverse enough to do such a thing. Look around. There is no reason to NOT think this.
    I live my life with integrity, I treat others well. If God is not a monster, and there is an afterlife, then He/It/She will do whatever He/It/She pleases because it is out of my hands, but will probably be life at a higher level. If god is an irrational monster, and there is an afterlife, then none of us are safe, not Sol, not Tech, none of us. And if a supernatural god does not exist, dead is dead, and I go to my grave with a clean conscience, knowing I have treated my fellow man well.

  16. Atheist MC Says:

    Heh! Margaret: I’m afraid I don’t like your hypothetical God anymore than the regular one. It is still a sadistic one even if the likes of you and me get the rewards. Besides I don’t get as much pleasure from the schadenfreude that Sol does, probably because I am a more moral person.

  17. solomon Says:

    Margaret,
    Don’t rant rubbish. When youre in !!HELL!! nobody could help you except God Almighty.

  18. Margaret Says:

    Sadism and schadenfreude, hallmarks of religious thought, even hypothetical or theoretical conjecture. That is why religion should be abandoned. Contrary to the assertion of religious nuts, faith brings out the worst in humanity.

  19. solomon Says:

    ‘Who create the 1st. design?’ CaptainZero1969, if you could’nt answere it, you’ll have to live with it.

  20. Margaret Says:

    I am still waiting for Solomon’s prayers to prove his point by the sudden appearance of cities on the moon. You ask CZ to meet a standard you do not meet. Typical religious nonsense.

  21. solomon Says:

    Margaret,

    Sadism or schadenfreude, are all in the minds of humans and always commit by humans. God don’t mistreat human beings at all, if fact he provides sustenance for them to live. You need fear of nothing if you did nothing wrong, if you obey his rules for the benefit of your life too.
    God has been very fair. without gods rules is it fair to let everyone get away with the wrong doings they commit, like murder,rape or abuse of powers?

    You are too skeptic of the most gracious, most merciful god Margaret. You made a fine example of a woman who will be the inhabitants of !!HELL!!. Unless you repent.

  22. solomon Says:

    “Who create the 1st design. A question the Atheists can’t answer”
    I know the answer. I can live with it. I’am happy with it.

    Na…na.. na.na na…….

  23. Margaret Says:

    Ah, obey his rules, and he will make you happy after your are dead. I know the scam. No thanks.

  24. EZ Says:

    Christians NEVER know what they’re taking about,…if they did, they would not be Christians.

    The term anti-Christ is in regards to those like Bar Cochba, the Jews’ messiah and “prince of Israel,” whom the new Christian leadership rejected as the their “messiah returned.” To the Christian leadership at the time, Bar Cochba was an anti-Christ. As for the false Christ of Matthew 24:24, that, as noted above, seems to be in connection with the Gnostic Christ, whose followers Hadrian (71–138 CE) called “bishops of Christ” in his letter to the Consul Servianus. A false Christ or anti-Christ was anyone at that time not chained to the new orthodoxy. Where and when the author of the Gospel According to John has his Jesus say, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except by me” is in response to the Bar Cochba period.

    John was the last of the canonical gospels. Theophilus of Antioch appears to be the first person to mention its existence as a gospel (during the later half of the second century). However, the Rylands Papyrus, which could be part of a copy of John, has been paleographically dated to 150 CE, fifteen years after the Bar Cochba revolt. John’s gospel resonates more with the Jesus of the Talmud than the Jesus in the synoptic gospels. For example, John has his Jesus dying on the eve of Passover, as the slaughtered lamb, not following the Passover meal as the Jesus of Matthew and Luke. Actually the documentation of the time points to the so-called crucifixion as actually a fabricated cruci-fiction, invented along with the resurrection story after 95 CE. Rabbinic law called for criminals to be stoned, not to undergo a Roman-style crucifixion, although hanging was acceptable for lesser offenses. Jesus was killed “by hanging him on a tree” (Acts 5:30 & 10:39); Jesus was “hung on a tree” Galatians 3:13; his “body [was] on the tree” 1 Peter 2:24.

    The Apocalypse or Book of Revelation is subconscious religious symbolism woven together with the messianic events associated with the forty-two-month Bar Cochba revolt. The Bar Cochba revolt occurred circa 135 CE, when Jewish towns and temples became Gentile, as per Rev. 11:2 & 13:5.

    By the way,…The Apocalypse or Revelation of John reportedly was admitted into the canon of the New Testament in the late fourth century by one vote. That one vote margin of acceptance is said to have been attained only after the addition of the first three verses, which is quite humorous, considering that the last verses of Revelation say, “No man shall add unto these pages.”

    EZ

  25. Atheist MC Says:

    Hey EZ very informative post, thanks!

  26. solomon Says:

    EZ ,

    You have been wasting time compiling confused misleading thoughts read from your un resourceful books. You can keep your book and rather study the true book Qoran.

  27. Braathwaat Says:

    I find it interesting that the majority of religious people are quick to banish gays to hell (as per gods word) yet not so quick to do the same for divorced people, woman that aren’t virgins when married, those that commit adultery, along with dozens of other acts that according to the bible are just as sinful.

  28. Margaret Says:

    “without gods rules is it fair to let everyone get away with the wrong doings they commit, like murder,rape or abuse of powers?”

    Being murdered for a fatwah, getting raped by a priest, or emptying out your bank account for an embezzler tele-evangelist is not an abuse of powers or sin committed in the name of religion, the supposedly superior moral authority? Puh-leaze. The religious sheep are so quick to excuse the corruption in their midst, and so quick to condemn law-abiding, tax paying, good-hearted atheists. By their fruits ye shall know them, a verse of scripture, ring a bell for anyone?

    God exists only in the mind of humans. Life is not fair. Jack the Ripper died, and he got away with murder. The insistence of the religions to sell their “fairness insurance, god will make it all work out after death” is ridiculous. They are selling a defective product. It may be emotionally comforting for some people, but look at all the baggage that goes with it. Atheism may be hard nosed, but it makes more sense. I may not like the truth that Jack the Ripper and other killers get away with murder, but that does not change the fact that it is the truth. Take a deep breath, and appreciate life. I don’t need god for that.

  29. Hypatia Says:

    sol:

    I know the answer.

    There’s nothing so pathetic as a person who thinks they have all the answers!

  30. Edmond Says:

    Sol, how much time do you waste on this website, when YOU could be studying the Qoran?

  31. John Says:

    Declaring that there is a god makes man the center of the Universe and thus makes man feel important; add the fear of condemnation to hell and that makes man afraid; while being religious makes man – the fool.

  32. Admin Says:

    robb: “i think you’re a plant………..generated by whoever owns/runs this site”

    I don’t think I could invent Solomon even if I tried! He’s the real deal but fortunately, he’s unlikely to ever convert anyone!

  33. Margaret Says:

    I expected some religious nut to answer me back and tell me Jack the Ripper is in Hell, and I will go there and meet him. I used to be a believer, so I know the mind-set.

    But, but, wait a minute, Jack the Ripper converted 5 minutes before he died of a massive heart attack. J the R is in Heaven, dancing with the angels. LaLaLa, he’s a ballerina now. I, however, am an atheist, and am doomed to Hell, unless I want to convert, too, and go frolic with J the R. Ha, ha, ain’t religious morality funny?

    So, a good-hearted, law-abiding atheist who never hurts anyone is worse than a serial killer who converts to religion 5 minutes prior to death? THIS is the “superior moral authority” claimed by religion?? Seriously?!