4th January 2008

“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

Thomas Jefferson1743 – 1826

17 Responses to “4th January 2008”

  1. Terence Meaden Says:

    The day has come, but sadly not to everyone.

    Believers continue to indoctrinate the young when they can. Some children seem predisposed to such persuasion and carry their delusions into adulthood, so maintaining the cycle.

  2. Terence Meaden Says:

    Here follows an entertaining quote, solemnly written by the ecclesiastic Cardinal Bellarmine, in 1615, in a letter to Paolo Frascioni:

    “To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin.”

  3. Admin Says:

    Terence – you’ll be pleased to hear that Cardinal Bellarmine’s thoughts on celestial mechanics are already in the quotations database.

    He was canonized by Pope Pius XI in 1930, presumably for his contributions to astronomical science 😉

  4. Terence Meaden Says:

    That’s good to know.

    Tell me, is this next appropriate one in your collection?

    Pope Leo X [1513-1521] is on record as saying “How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us.”

  5. Admin Says:

    “Pope Leo X [1513-1521] is on record as saying…”

    Terence – if we can find (or you can suggest?) a citation we’ll certainly add it.

    BTW you can suggest quotes here or check whether we already have them here.

  6. Admin Says:

    I’ve found a citation:

    “The pope’s [Leo X] pronouncement is recorded in the diaries and records of both Pietro Cardinal Bembo (Letters and Comments on Pope Leo X, 1842 reprint) and Paolo Cardinal Giovio (De Vita Leonis Decimi…, op. cit.), two associates who were witnesses to it.”

    .. and in the process I found a lot of other interesting quotations about the papacy that will find its way into future postings 🙂

  7. Thunder Says:

    * Pope Leo X [1513-1521] is on record as saying “How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us.” *

    The danger of quotes is that they can fail to carry the inflections of the quoter. The meaning always resides with the person origionating; not with the person who has ulterior motive.

  8. GJK Says:

    I didn’t think you were papal apologist Thunder.

  9. Thunder Says:

    * I didn’t think you were papal apologist Thunder. *

    Absolutely I`m no apologist for the pope or catholicism. I`m a fan of honest communication. To strip a quote of the atmosphere (inflection of irony or sarchasm) with which it is scripted is to modify its meaning. In this case the quote obviously is missing its inflection of sarchasm and the quote tends to (probably falsely) implicate them as knowingly reprobate of mind. In my mind they are definately wrong but I don`t believe that they know that.

  10. Terence Meaden Says:

    “There are many things that are true which it is not useful for the vulgar crowd to know; and certain things which although they are false it is expedient for the people to believe otherwise.” St. Augustine

    To Admin: This is from my collection. I am trying to find an ancient source that provides it.

  11. Thunder Says:

    The word ‘there’ suggest this may be in response to a two way conversation and to find what this quote is in response to can clarify what the specific theme is which motivates the inception of this quote. It is leading without foundation to infer the theme is an underlying knowledge or supposition that there is no God. I have seen this same quote used to establish the intent to keep the laity in the dark by withholding personal copies of scripture.

  12. Terence Meaden Says:

    Martin Luther’s words are hardly encouraging when it comes to discussing facts and truths. He would probably have agreed with the statement by St. Augustine of Hippo, above, whatever its context turns out to be:

    “Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and … know nothing but the word of God.” Martin Luther.

  13. Thunder Says:

    * Martin Luther’s words are hardly encouraging when it comes to discussing facts and truths. *

    So it must be corrective to progress in quotation without contexualization?

    * He would probably have agreed with the statement by St. Augustine of Hippo, above, whatever its context turns out to be *

    The fact that st. augustine was apologetic and martin luther was dismissive doesn`t impact your perspective?

  14. Terence Meaden Says:

    Ignoring facts and smothering truth from the mental reach of believers is a sure way to success with religion.
    L. Ron Hubbard (Scientology), Charles Taze Russell (Jehovah’s Witnesses)and Joseph Smith (Mormons) are among moderns who knew that.

  15. Thunder Says:

    * Ignoring facts and smothering truth from the mental reach of believers is a sure way to success with religion. *

    I`m not contesting that the caths weren`t liars. I`m contesting what you infer are facts that they withheld and covered up. How are you any different for making inferences that can be demonstrated to be wrong with a little investigation? Investigation that you can`t be bothered with because you have no great love for being truthful!

    * L. Ron Hubbard (Scientology), Charles Taze Russell (Jehovah’s Witnesses)and Joseph Smith (Mormons) are among moderns who knew that. *

    And you know that how? Where are their quotes that you are going to misrepresent as well? Get this straight I`m not defending them I question your process.

  16. Terence Meaden Says:

    The facts being truths may be summarised as the totality of the scientific discoveries of the last couple of centuries, and they include cosmology, astronomy and evolution.

    Smothering such facts, as the inventors of new religions do, is to mislead deliberately the new peoples who they invite to join them.

  17. Thunder Says:

    * The facts being truths may be summarised as the totality of the scientific discoveries of the last couple of centuries *

    Facts being scientific is your fixation. You have not shown the intent of those quotes were to subvert scientific facts. Again I`m not saying if they do or not. I`m saying your process seems to be to remove quotes from the contexts in which they reside and paint your own backdrop to them. That is manipulative and not reflective.

    * Smothering such facts, as the inventors of new religions do, is to mislead deliberately the new peoples who they invite to join them. *

    You have not established that they do.