5th January 2008

“It wasn't a secularist who brought us to war in Iraq, nor was it a rogue band of atheists who spent decades abusing altar boys, nor was it a cabal of militant agnostics who flew planes into the World Trade Center.”

Richard Abreu

15 Responses to “5th January 2008”

  1. Thunder Says:

    * It wasn’t a secularist who brought us to war in Iraq *

    Saddam was a secularist. The bath party came to power with the backing of the us because it was secularist. The iran iraq war happened because the bath party was secular.

  2. Terence Meaden Says:

    I had inferred that Saddam was a disinterested Muslim rather than a secularist, until he decided that he should aim to get more of his countrymen and Muslims in other countries ‘on his side’ by using the trick of apparent good religious belief. So in later years he made a more public show of prayer, for the very reason that Aristotle set out:

    “A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side.” Aristotle.

  3. Thunder Says:

    * I had inferred *

    Well, aside from the inference you allude to (not sure you are refrencing any discussion we have had), Sadams secularity served his countrymen well having kept the peace within that country up until the time he chose to conflict with the interests of the west both of oil interests as well as stability interests.

    * until he decided that he should aim to get more of his countrymen and Muslims in other countries ‘on his side’ by using the trick of apparent good religious belief. *

    He`d already stepped into the fire by that time. But this does make reference to the tendancies that I`m always referring to but am constantly disallowed. Religion is always the scapegoat to more sinister personal motives and is seldom the culprit of armed hostility.

    * Aristotle *

    Was right (considering the most elementary reduction of his quote). Religion can be misused. Reality is that most anything can be misused including scientific pursuits.

    * they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. *

    Aristotles quote being your inference that bush was allowed to enter into and remain in conflict because he is religious? You guys can`t get out of the way of your prejudices. The proper reduction of dynamics of this dispute does not contain any reference to religion at all. The proper reduction of the antagonist view is that ‘bush lied’. The proper reduction of the protagonist view is that ‘bush acted upon lies he was told’. I don`t hold either of those positions.

  4. Joy Says:

    No matter what, it was not Saddam who brought us to war in Iraq. It was a religious zealot named George Bush who did that. I’m quite sure that’s the one Mr. Abreu was referring to.

  5. Thunder Says:

    * No matter what, it was not Saddam who brought us to war in Iraq. *

    “No matter what’??? You mean your mind is made up and noone can confuse you with the facts?

    * It was a religious zealot named George Bush who did that. *

    I don`t see any evidence from bush that he is fanatical about religion. I don`t see any indication that religion is even a partial motive for his descision to enter this conflict. Anyone who suggests that is lying.

    * I’m quite sure that’s the one Mr. Abreu was referring to. *

    I know who he`s talking about.

  6. GJK Says:

    “I don`t see any evidence from bush that he is fanatical about religion.”

    Religion is core to his present (post rehab) life.

    To the non-religious, most religious practises appear obsessional to some extent and many religious people appear to be fanatical.

  7. Thunder Says:

    * Religion is core to his present (post rehab) life. *

    Assuming that is correct that does NOT make him a zealot. Look up the word and stop operating in the dark.

    * To the non-religious, most religious practises appear obsessional to some extent *

    That is a pedestrian argument. I have seen no oblately obvious actions from him.

    * many religious people appear to be fanatical. *

    I find that paranoid and imaginary.

  8. GJK Says:

    “Look up the word and stop operating in the dark.”

    OK.

    Zealot: a person who shows zeal.

    Zeal: fervor for a person, cause, or object; eager desire or endeavor; enthusiastic diligence; ardor.

    What was your point?

  9. GJK Says:

    “I find that paranoid and imaginary.”

    Of course you would.

  10. Thunder Says:

    * Of course you would. *

    If it wasn`t I wouldn`t say I find it to be so I would say it appears as you say about your idea of what constitutes a religious person.

    * Zeal: fervor for a person, cause, or object; eager desire or endeavor; enthusiastic diligence; ardor. *

    That is NOT the definition of zeal when defining a religious zealot. That definition is basically militant activism. That characterization of bush would be true if his motive for going to war was for religious considerations; which of course that is what you ……. claim and I contest.

  11. GJK Says:

    “That is NOT the definition of zeal when defining a religious zealot.”

    I trust the dictionary more than I trust you.

  12. Thunder Says:

    * I trust the dictionary more than I trust you. *

    I took my definition from the dictionary.

  13. Thunder Says:

    2. zealot – a fervent and even militant proponent of something

    So the root of that definition would be fervent or even militant activisim (proponent).

  14. GJK Says:

    “I took my definition from the dictionary.”

    So did I – there is more than one definition and Joy’s description is valid.

  15. Thunder Says:

    * So did I – there is more than one definition and Joy’s description is valid. *

    For people who are suppose to be able to think you are very illogical. Her claim is that he went to war because he is religious. IT ONLY PERTAINS TO THE DEFINITION THAT I TOOK FROM THE DICTIONARY!!!!!