27th December 2010

“There's an obvious and fundamental flaw in Abrahamic religion: a deity which claims that morality is obedience but which speaks only through intermediaries. Confronted by a prophet, a layman has to choose whether to obey or disobey but is given no framework with which to make his decision. Such a religion will constantly bifurcate, in an unwinnable struggle between charlatans and reformers. It's almost impossible to imagine that such a religion could be any other way than this.”


7 Responses to “27th December 2010”

  1. Brian Schwing Says:

    I have often shared in this exact same sentiment. Of course the Christians will just claim that God will direct you towards the true prophet through faith.
    This leads to the strange idea that God is directing some towards the truth and not others. Which some Christians believe.
    But this creates the conundrum of all of reality being pointless. Here’s how.

    If god is directing some towards truth and not others and is omniscient, already knowing all who he will show the truth throughout the rest of history then why keep the facade of reality going?
    According to Christians God at some point in the future will create an everlasting paradise for the faithful. If he already knows who all the faithful will be throughout history, why not just end this hellish reality and just replace it with the ‘Heaven’ version.

    Speaking of the ‘Heaven’ version of reality. If God is capable of creating a paradise with freedom and no sin that will last all of eternity, why did he not just create this reality to begin with?

  2. Ernie Says:

    I suppose Seth that Christians would say he did create it but then use the fall of man to explain it away. Quite convenient but brings up many new problems.

    Concerning the quote I don’t know what Anon means by framework to make a decision. What would that look like?

  3. Brian Says:

    I agree that the ‘fall of man’ is a way to explain away the current version of reality (with its own problems). But the vast majority of Christians believe in the idea loosely expressed in Revelations that after the end times, God will create a paradise for the faithful that will last for eternity. If this ‘new’ reality was also susceptible to a type of ‘fall of man’ then what would be the point of it? I think the idea is that this new eternal heaven will not be susceptible to a possible ‘fall of man’. This shows that God is capable of creating such a reality and in turn makes this reality pointless and deviant.

    Also if you have to prove yourself as faithful in order to be part of this new heaven (as most would argue) then we fall back on the point made by the original author of determining which prophets to believe in and the fact that it is all based on faith and God guiding only some to the truth (my point). This is also clearly evidenced in reality by the tens of thousands of different denominations.

    With this we have come full circle and can only conclude in good conscience that God is a deviant, not someone to be praised and worshiped. This is the conundrum.

  4. Brian Says:

    P.S. A framework would have to be authored by the original source and not through an intermediary. This would eliminate any chance of mistranslation or obscuration by a secondary source (we are all sinners as they say) thus allowing us to truly trust in it. Yet we have no such document for a framework. I think that is his point.

  5. Ernie Says:

    Who is Seth? Sorry I meant Brian. Your points are strong and I agree. Why would an all powerful being mess around so much? Not trying to paraphrase you there.

    Thanks for the framework comment.

  6. Socratic Method Man Says:

    This quote a brilliant point, and succinctly put. It avoids direct accusation of any person, living or dead, and puts the blame for the issues with the faith itself on the framework, or lack thereof, without being in any way vague or conciliatory. I can’t see anyone successfully arguing against this without ostentatiously falling back on magical thinking, false logic, or appeals to authority.

    Of course, that’s always the difficulty, isn’t it? ._.

  7. Atheist MC Says:

    The number of prophets also seems strangely proportional to the number of suckers born every minute.