17th January 2008

“The only reason Christians are not still burning each other is because the secular state stopped them.”

Professor Simon Blackburn

31 Responses to “17th January 2008”

  1. Thunder Says:

    Stupid arrogant rah rah bastard. It was those quasi-theocratic governments lending their resources to the catholics that perpetuated the inquisitions. Any abatment came from the threat of revolt of the masses. fundamental change always follows threat of revolt.

  2. Terence Meaden Says:

    *Any abatement came from the threat of revolt of the masses; fundamental change always follows threat of revolt.*

    “The church was never at the forefront when it came to a call for change. It held the rearguard, and fought to maintain the status quo that it had set itself. Only when threatened, did it accede to change.” T. M.

  3. Critic Says:

    *Stupid arrogant rah rah bastard*

    I would think that the height of arrogance would be the religious fools who believe themselves so important that they think a god created the universe just so they could live in it and live the life that he wants them to live. The same religious fools who beleive that some god controls the physical world and actually tinkers with human existence at the pathetic requests of the faithful. Now THAT is arrogance.

    *It was those quasi-theocratic governments lending their resources to the catholics that perpetuated the inquisitions.*

    Interesting, I don’t remember reading anything about Catholoics or the Inquisition in the quote.

    In any case, there were plenty of Protestants burning each other for religious reasons – see the highly intelligent Salem Witch trials where the true genius of the religious mind really shines.

  4. Roland Says:

    Actually you could even ask the American Native Indians about this. There was a time when it was OK to kill them because the Christians thought that they were not sons of Adam and Eve. Found an excuse and killed them.
    Thunder: Not because the bible says Jesus did nice things, Christians are good people or the bible is flawless.

  5. Thunder Says:

    * The church was never at the forefront when it came to a call for change. *

    No, the CATHS were not. But the ones they were burning WERE! Who were they? The vast majority of them were christian reformists. The quoters statment even suggests that to a degree.

    * It held the rearguard *

    Again you either can`t or refuse to make a distinction between catholicism and christianity just as the quoter doesn`t. Not one person will be saved by being a baptist or catholic or methodist. There is only one name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved and it ain`t none of them.

    * fought to maintain the status quo that it had set itself. *

    Nobody least of all me is defending the roman catholic travesty.

    * Only when threatened, did it accede to change. *

    They still elect a pope and they still maintain a country of their own. They didn`t exceed to anything. That is the one thing the quoter got right. The change didn`t come from the caths. What I contest is where he claims the change did come from. His claim that it took a secularist attitude to bring about that change is the height of revisionism.

  6. Roland Says:

    Please, the caths can come up with the same excuse, they accept evolution, they were the first ones adopting the heliocentric model, etc…. So can the muslims as well

  7. Critic Says:

    *There is only one name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved and it ain`t none of them.*

    Oh boy. Such gibberish. Such inane mutterings.

    See how the religious fanatic knows that his brand of religion is the right one and all the others are wrong.

    I agree with you completely that all the other religions are stupid. But I go one farther – I’m sure that whatever religious limb you find yourself on in the family tree of human ignorance, yours is just as ridiculous.

    The rational understanding of the universe tell us that there is no evidence for heaven nor is there evidence for a god. As for being “saved”, well glory hallelujah I’m so glad you have the right method figured out. Problem is, there is no eveidence that there is anything to be saved from either.

  8. Thunder Says:

    * Actually you could even ask the American Native Indians about this. *

    Is that where you information comes from? How many 250 year old indians do you know? I know the history and I have some kinship.

    * There was a time when it was OK to kill them *

    Chapter? Verse?

    * the Christians thought that they were not sons of Adam and Eve. *

    You don`t know what you are talking about. Christians are guided by scripture. Geneologies were deinvolved in the new testament because they pertain to flesh(physical). Christianity is about being spiritual. They weren`t (being) christian when they make up excuses to do what their flesh desires.

    * Found an excuse and killed them. *

    Imminent domain pertained to the jews. Imminent domain for the christians is heaven. They didn`t know and neither do you.

    * Thunder: Not because the bible says Jesus did nice things *

    Right they weren`t motivated (directed) by scripture.

    * Christians are good people *

    NOONE IS GOOD.

    * or the bible is flawless. *

    Irrelevant if it is or not if they weren`t directed by it.

  9. Critic Says:

    *Christians are guided by scripture*

    Actually, I think you will find that the religious use their holy books to support whatever position they desire at the time, not as a guide.

    *NOONE IS GOOD.*

    Such hatred for humanity. I am truly sad for you. The only possible source for good is humanity. Problem is that too many humans are consumed with trying to force their ignorant beliefs on everyone else.

  10. Roland Says:

    “Is that where you information comes from? How many 250 year old indians do you know? I know the history and I have some kinship.”
    Tell me about history then, about the protestant settlers.

    “Chapter? Verse?”
    Irrelevant, where was the rapture :P? you totally dodged the Salem Witch Trials.

    “You don`t know what you are talking about. Christians are guided by scripture. Geneologies were deinvolved in the new testament because they pertain to flesh(physical). Christianity is about being spiritual. They weren`t (being) christian when they make up excuses to do what their flesh desires.”

    The bible didn’t talk about any new land, or the world being round. All they knew was about Adam and Eve, and since they couldn’t understand how these people actually arrived there to the Americas they thought that someone must have created them. It doesn’t say in the bible, so the only other guy could have been the deceiving devil himself. Kill the Indians they said.

    “Right they weren`t motivated (directed) by scripture.”
    They were, but the scripture was so unclear that they perceived it the wrong way. It MUST be their fault though.

    “NOONE IS GOOD.”
    I think I like people more than you do, I disagree with your statement.

    “Irrelevant if it is or not if they weren`t directed by it.”
    You must know my argument by now… 🙂 how can the perception of the perfect bible not be relevant if it was created by a perfect being.

  11. Thunder Says:

    * Oh boy. Such gibberish. Such inane mutterings. *

    It isn`t suppose to mean anything to you. This is the world wide web and that means a lot of people ambling by and not all atheists. That wasn`t directed at you atheists. I`m holding two conversations rolled into one. Don`t care what you think of me. You thought what you think when I wasn`t even here and that is called prejudicial.

    * See how the religious fanatic knows that his brand of religion is the right one and all the others are wrong. *

    Self-reflect!

    * I agree with you completely that all the other religions are stupid. *

    You cannot put words in my mouth I will NOT LET YOU! I didn`t go through that whole spiel about ignorance just to hear myself write.

    * But I go one farther – I’m sure that whatever religious limb you find yourself on in the family tree of human ignorance, yours is just as ridiculous. *

    There is absolutely no substance to your charge that I have ignored anything. I defy you to produce any such instance where I have ignored anything. You have the right to your opinion no matter how wrong it is.

    * The rational understanding of the universe *

    Reverential statment from someone who doesn`t even know their own religion. Scientist persist is saying they have barely scratched the surface of understanding the universe.

    * tell us that there is no evidence for heaven nor is there evidence for a god. *

    You are looking in the wrong place and you are neglecting the senses necessary to detect.

    * As for being “saved”, well glory hallelujah I’m so glad you have the right method figured out. *

    I didn`t figure it out. It was bequethed to me.

    * Problem is, there is no eveidence that there is anything to be saved from either. *

    It doesn`t take a genius to see the error in that statment. Saved from ourselves.

  12. Roland Says:

    “It doesn`t take a genius to see the error in that statment. Saved from ourselves.”

    Yeah. Lets pray, but way would we pray? God must know what is best better than what we do. He must also know already what we are about to say, why even say it then?
    No, better idea in order to safe society we must rally the streets and kick some gay butts out of our neighborhood.
    No, even better, lets just bomb an abortion clinic. We may have to pay the real ultimate price (hell) to safe our society from dooming itself.
    No, how about we just do all of these things at the same time and then we don’t acknowledge it so people won’t be confused about Christianity. 😛

    There is a group of Christian Zionist who would really like to see the coming of god.

  13. Roland Says:

    Just for fun also:
    It does not make sense that the universe always existed (even in different states) so something must have created it, it is too complex for it to be there just by random. What created it also gave us a set of 10 commandments to live by. It is so complex that when we ask ourselves about it we must sometimes be satisfied with the fact that it is so complex we don’t fully understand it. So, complex that something else must have created it [god]. Something so complex and so more powerful that it’s [god’s god] creation [god] couldn’t understand.
    Obviously I can go on and on with this list… where do you want me to stop? 🙂

  14. Roland Says:

    This Myth has been BUSTED. 😀

  15. Roland Says:

    We are so dumb, now he/she/it will get angry and punish us. For not believing in it, it was our choice. The devil has a hidden factory in the center of the earth manufacturing fossils and super expensive high powered mind controlling laser guns that convinces mathematicians, archaeologists, astronomers, biologists, and physicists, among a whole array of other scientists that science is right and true.
    But of course, people like Thunder are so smart that they can absolutely understand how the idea of an Adam and Eve, a talking donkey, and biology come together logically.

    Thunder, base your knowledge on how to help human nature from itself by reading thousands of books rather than just one, with no studies or references to.

  16. Chris Says:

    Now you’ve done it, Rol. Mrs. God is gonna heave Herself off the toilet and whack your ass.

  17. Roland Says:

    And if there really is a god may a lightning strike Thunder!
    I got that one from George Carlin, only instead of thunder he said the audience (few laughed on that joke 😀 😀 )

    Just kidding Thunder, you know I’m just saying that because it won’t happen.
    Seriously, I hope you have a long productive life.

  18. Chris Says:

    But not a reproductive one. That Carlin bit is a CLASSIC. “The award for the all-time biggest bull-shit story ever has to go to religion…” or something like that. I’m gonna pull it up on YouTube right now!

  19. Roland Says:

    This is the video:

  20. Thunder Says:

    * Please, the caths can come up with the same excuse *

    I made no excuse. I don`t see how being burned at the stake can be construed as making an excuse.

    * they accept evolution they were the first ones adopting the heliocentric model *

    It doesn`t matter. They should have never got into the buisness of constructing a religious ideology that is extraneous to the material of scripture. Scripture says God did it. It doesn`t propose to go into intricate detail. Just as scripture does NOT propose to indicate how old the earth is. Scripture is about sociological and meta-physical issues. It isn`t meant to be a science book. We live in Gods science book. He put us in a sand box and he said go at it (be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth).

  21. Roland Says:

    So you agree with us then that there was not possible way that there was a talking snake, a talking donkey, not a burning plant. right? Genesis does not intend to explain how we came to be.
    I mean there is nothing about science in the bible, it just sociological and metaphysical, right?

    When confronted with the fact that the Church was never in the forefront of social change you replied:
    “No, the CATHS were not. But the ones they were burning WERE! Who were they? The vast majority of them were christian reformists. The quoters statment even suggests that to a degree.”
    You are still unable to respond about the atrocities your branch/denomination. Like the SALEM WITCH TRIALS. Its ok, your excuse applies to all religions, they just didn’t follow it the right way during depending on how it is perceived.

    Please allow me to quote someone I was corresponding with for a while. He’s Catholic and this is what he said after I questioned the Christian teachings about unity:
    ” The reason why there are so many various branches of Christianity is that, put simply, this is the inevitable result of the abandonment of the Apostolic nature of the Church which Christ established. When the Reformation Christians abandoned the the central authority of the Apostolic leadership of the Catholic Church, they unwittingly created the conditions which allowed for the splintering of Christianity into dozens, if not hundreds of various sects. However, despite this, there are in fact only two Christian Churches that maintain the Apostolic traditions of the Church created by Christ: the Roman Catholic Church, and the Eastern Orthodox Church. All my answers will be based upon the doctrines and teachings of the Catholic Church, vis a vis Holy Scripture.”

    You see Christians are just as divided as any other religion, and like any other human being they do what they do thinking it is the right thing. No one wants to be the antagonist of their story (their mental perception of self).

    Cheers,

  22. Thunder Says:

    * Actually, I think you will find that the religious use their holy books to support whatever position they desire at the time, not as a guide. *

    I am myself religious. It is not a matter of religion that has them self-justifying through a misuse of scripture.

    * Such hatred for humanity. *

    It isn`t a matter of hate. I can count on one hand the number of people that I have disliked in my life.

    * I am truly sad for you. *

    You don`t know me enough to be truely anything toward me. But through your stereotypes you permit yourself to scorn and debase me perniciously and at the same time proclaim your goodness and humanity and empathy. If I learn hate it will be from you.

    * The only possible source for good is humanity. *

    We aren`t talking about the same thing.

    * Problem is that too many humans are consumed with trying to force their ignorant beliefs on everyone else. *

    I don`t see you as any different. You promote science as contrasting religion but they pertain to different things. Science can`t produce law. It can`t construct character (and those just pertain to the physical nevermind the ethereal). Science is a tool that is neither good nor bad. It really sucks as the basis of a religion though that doesn`t stop you. Science does not answer all questions and it never will.

  23. Thunder Says:

    * So you agree with us *

    No. I don`t agree with you.

    * that there was not possible way that there was a talking snake, a talking donkey, not a burning plant. *

    Asked and answered at least three times. It doesn`t matter how many times you ridicule me.

    * Genesis does not intend to explain how we came to be. *

    Genesis reads like an itinerary of God. It is a summation. It`s elements are correct. We are dust. Do you suppose those men writting the bible were unaware of the internal components of the body? NO. But they didn`t say God made the heart at 5:00 and the ribs at 7:00. It is NOT meant to be indepth. It was given to folks who couldn`t conceive of the complexities.

    * I mean there is nothing about science in the bible *

    Depends on what science you are talking about. The data is correct.

    * it just sociological and metaphysical, right? *

    When I say that I`m talking about the main issues it is meant to address.

    * You are still unable to respond about the atrocities your branch/denomination. *

    You can`t make accusations without specifics. Besides that you are unaware of the construction of the group I am associated with. On top of that…… you are arguing pertaining to a mental depiction of a physical entity (church). You can`t point to any earthly location and correctly indicate this is where the church is…… Jesus said it this way…… you say we worship God in this mountain and others say we worship God in jerusalem but the time will come when you neither worship God in this mountain or jerusalem for the kingdom of God is in you. ONLY GOD knows the extent of the church. No title indicates it.

    * Its ok, your excuse applies to all religions *

    I don`t make excuses for the church. It doesn`t need any excuse. The people who lie and say they are acting in the interest of God and aren`t won`t get any defense from me. They are the ones responsible for the loss of many souls. I MUST make a consistent argument that scriptural authority is necessary for everything we (christians) say we do by authority of God.

    * You see Christians are just as divided as any other religion *

    You are mistaken. One profession is just as good as another to you; but, not to God. God isn`t confused about who is right and who isn`t. Being right means being right with him.

    * like any other human being they do what they do thinking it is the right thing. *

    That is NOT inconsistent with what scripture says. Every man is right in his own eyes by God judges the heart. That sounds simple but understand…. the man is looking at circumstance outside himself but God is judging the inside of the person. This is the difference between the overriding purpose of the new testament and the old testament. The old testament established governmental law (primarily) while the more intricate and mature aspect of inner law and character was the main focus of christianity.

  24. Roland Says:

    “No. I don`t agree with you.”
    Yeah. We got that some long time ago. Thanks for clarifying. 🙂

    “Genesis reads like an itinerary of God. It is a summation. It`s elements are correct. We are dust. Do you suppose those men writting the bible were unaware of the internal components of the body? NO. But they didn`t say God made the heart at 5:00 and the ribs at 7:00. It is NOT meant to be indepth. It was given to folks who couldn`t conceive of the complexities.”
    No, you suppose that I suppose that… 😉 Anyways, that’s not important; the point you are making is flawed, that’s what’s important. Had you studied biology you would know of why the talking donkey would be unreal. The best explanation is that whoever came up with that story lied or that god is the deceiving demon Descartes used for his deceiving demon argument.

    “Depends on what science you are talking about. The data is correct.”
    Tell me about the sciences. 🙂

    “When I say that I`m talking about the main issues it is meant to address.”
    Oh, I remember you saying: “Just as scripture does NOT propose to indicate how old the earth is. Scripture is about sociological and meta-physical issues. It isn`t meant to be a science book.” What is it? One, the other or are you confused?

    “You can`t make accusations without specifics.”
    The specifics where mentioned already, all you did is say that those where not motivated by the bible. It’s the same thing that ANY religion can say.

    “Besides that you are unaware of the construction of the group I am associated with”
    Don’t make presumptuous allegations, you don’t know me.

    “I MUST make a consistent argument that scriptural authority is necessary for everything we (christians) say we do by authority of God.”
    Wishful thinking, there is no evidence to support that other than wishful thinking.

    “You are mistaken. One profession is just as good as another to you; but, not to God. God isn`t confused about who is right and who isn`t. Being right means being right with him.”
    Yeah, Gandhi is in hell because even though he knew about Jesus he never accepted him. Acting like a Jesus but in a real world and still he goes to hell. God has a hard time recognizing what is really important, because even though you act as good as Jesus supposedly did you still needed to accept him in your heart in order to get in heaven.
    Stop assuming about my life, you don’t know me.

    “That is NOT inconsistent with what scripture says. Every man is right in his own eyes by God judges the heart. That sounds simple but understand…. the man is looking at circumstance outside himself but God is judging the inside of the person. This is the difference between the overriding purpose of the new testament and the old testament. The old testament established governmental law (primarily) while the more intricate and mature aspect of inner law and character was the main focus of christianity.”
    The Old Testament says you should kill gay people. I don’t think the guys who wrote these books really thought that thousands of years later some of us were going to read Leviticus and see it as idiotic.

  25. Thunder Says:

    * The Old Testament says you should kill gay people. *

    No, it doesn`t.

    * I don’t think the guys who wrote these books really thought *

    They wrote what they were moved to write.

    * thousands of years later some of us were going to read Leviticus and see it as idiotic. *

    It wasn`t written to be judged by you.

    * Stop assuming about my life, you don’t know me. *

    I don`t make any assumptions about you. When you resist separating false and true conviction I have every right to make reference to that fact.

    * Yeah, Gandhi is in hell because even though he knew about Jesus he never accepted him. *

    I don`t know Gandhi and even if I did I would not judge(condemn) him. It isn`t my place. People don`t go to hell for doing right. They go to hell for the things they do wrong.

    * Acting like a Jesus but in a real world and still he goes to hell. *

    What qualifies you to say he was acting like Jesus who you don`t bother to learn about? And who told you that he is going to hell? Romans 2:13-15 contradicts the notion that someone can live sinlessly and go to hell.

    * God has a hard time recognizing what is really important, because even though you act as good as Jesus supposedly did you still needed to accept him in your heart in order to get in heaven. *

    You are unqualified to discuss this issue. You think it is ONLY a matter of how you act towards others. But you neglect that it has to be important how you act toward God as well. You neglect a lot.

    * Wishful thinking, there is no evidence to support that other than wishful thinking. *

    Evidence to support that I am compelled to make a consistent argument about scriptural authority? It isn`t wishful thinking for me to ascert that I`m compelled to derive my motive in christian matters from scripture.

    * Don’t make presumptuous allegations, you don’t know me. *

    I know I`m not misunderstanding your misdirected persecutions.

    * The specifics where mentioned already *

    So you say but your preamble was to consider my group for instance but you fail to indentify my group (and you won`t be able to) and you therefore fail to show the involvment of that group in your specifics.

    * all you did is say that those where not motivated by the bible. *

    And you have not properly refuted that nor can you.

    * No, you suppose that I suppose that… *

    That is a question; punctuated by a ‘?’.

    * the point you are making is flawed *

    It isn`t you are mixing two different issues. Miracles are ethereal which I have already stipulated is different from science. Should be evident but you discount the ethereal and so to you everything must jive scientifically even though we have already established that scripture is predominantly about Gods realm and his insistence on how we approach him and others (sociological).

    * One, the other or are you confused? *

    I`m not confused.

  26. Renshia Says:

    “you either can`t or refuse to make a distinction between catholicism and christianity.”

    That is because their isn’t any difference.
    Stand up on your soap box all you want, you are just another religious nut that is living your life based on a lie.
    I remember using that pathetic argument once to, and I know you are the island unto itself. One of the only “true Christians and all others that disagree with you are false.
    when you swim like a fish, smell like a fish, and look like a fish, and breath like a fish, your probably a fish…. even if you deny it.

  27. Renshia Says:

    “I`m not confused”

    no, it is apparent you are to stupid to be confused. You are a slave, wasting your life.
    you have bought the lie and now waste your life, defending it’s ridiculous concepts and beliefs.

    “God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?”

    so if their is a God where are these signs and wonders. I have heard, and looked for, but have never met anyone with any kind of provable miracle. Where is this god of yours now… off for a pint?
    bah all you say is a delusion…

  28. Thunder Says:

    * That is because their isn’t any difference. *

    Not to them because they justify themselves. Not to you because you don`t care to be right.

    * Stand up on your soap box all you want *

    I am going to state the truth and I don`t need your permission. You on the other hand have no affection for the truth.

    * you are just another religious nut. *

    Thank you.

    * living your life based on a lie. *

    Just as I said…. you don`t care to be right. You think because you say it that makes it true. You don`t have that authority.

    * I remember using that pathetic argument once to *

    There is nothing pathetic about acknowledging a difference in proficiency.

    * I know you are the island unto itself. *

    I never made that argument. You continue to say this against my intervention. It is MY position you are addressing. I know it better than you do.

    * One of the only “true Christians and all others that disagree with you are false. *

    SHOW MY INVOLVMENT IN THE INQUISITION!!!! IN THE SALEM WITCH TRIALS!!!! IN THE INDIAN WARS!!!!! EZEKIEL chapter 18…… God will ask you the same thing! Show the involvment of christianity in these things. You can`t do it by showing that people who claimed to be christian were involved. This reminds me of a go-go gofers cartoon or a lone ranger episode. White men dress up as indians and commit a crime. And the townfolks can`t be convinced it wasn`t indians that did it! YOU ARE AN IDIOT THAT DOESN`T CARE TO BE RIGHT!

    * when you swim like a fish, smell like a fish, and look like a fish, and breath like a fish, your probably a fish…. even if you deny it. *

    A person who has never seen a fish couldn`t know the difference and a person who was never a christian nor met any couldn`t know the difference.

  29. Thunder Says:

    * no, it is apparent you are to stupid to be confused. *

    I`m too smart to allow you to project your failure on me.

    * You are a slave, wasting your life. *

    I`m still looking. Still learning. Still meditating. I don`t consider that a waste. I consider your evaluating my life based upon your predilections of your own life a waste.

    * so if their is a God where are these signs and wonders. *

    Go read the scriptures and find out! I know the answer. Since you don`t take my word for anything it wouldn`t do any good to answer you.

    * I have heard, and looked for, but have never met anyone with any kind of provable miracle. *

    Miracles come from God. You are looking in the wrong place. How much plainer can I get.

    * Where is this god of yours now… *

    Listening to you and making me.

    * off for a pint? *

    Doesn`t reflect me and reflects badly on you.

    * bah all you say is a delusion… *

    Too many things speak louder in your ear so that you have not even heard me.

  30. Roland Says:

    “No, it doesn`t.”
    Yes it does.
    I quote Leviticus 20:13 KJV: “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.” I thought you knew the Old Testament.

    “They wrote what they were moved to.”
    Where does it say this? Chapter? Verse?

    “I don`t know Gandhi and even if I did I would not judge(condemn) him. It isn`t my place. People don`t go to hell for doing right. They go to hell for the things they do wrong.”
    You mean like not accepting Jesus in their hearts?
    I quote some guys here 😉
    Matthew 10:33
    “But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.”
    Luke 12:8
    “And I say to you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will confess him also before the angels of God;”
    John 13:14-17
    “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.”For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.”
    Man there are tons, of these verses. Do you want to contradict any or all of them?
    Actually use the bible to contradict it self like Romans 2:13-15, that is even more amusing.
    Also, try learning about him [Gandhi]. Although not a Christian, Gandhi was a remarkable figure for the peaceful movement. I assure you will find much to like from this figure.

    “You are unqualified to discuss this issue. You think it is ONLY a matter of how you act towards others. But you neglect that it has to be important how you act toward God as well. You neglect a lot.”
    Unqualified? You mean just like you are of the Qu’ran right? If you are unqualified to deny the Qu’ran how are you qualified to say your religion is true and theirs is not?

    “Evidence to support that I am compelled to make a consistent argument about scriptural authority? It isn`t wishful thinking for me to ascert that I`m compelled to derive my motive in christian matters from scripture.”
    Yes it is. Prove me wrong.

    “I know I`m not misunderstanding your misdirected persecutions.”
    Ok, could you elaborate your allegation?
    “So you say but your preamble was to consider my group for instance but you fail to indentify my group (and you won`t be able to) and you therefore fail to show the involvment of that group in your specifics.”
    Why do you hide it? Testing us whether you are Protestant or not?

    “And you have not properly refuted that nor can you.”
    Eh, so you do? Interesting, let me ask a Cath, or a Muslim or a Jew. I will come back to you. Ups, they disagree, but conveniently enough they all had the same statement as you did “You have not properly refuted that nor can you”. Waking up is hard.

    “That is a question; punctuated by a ‘?’”
    Lol, nice try. I won’t focus on your orthographic errors, because it is beside the point.

    “It isn`t you are mixing two different issues. Miracles are ethereal which I have already stipulated is different from science. Should be evident but you discount the ethereal and so to you everything must jive scientifically even though we have already established that scripture is predominantly about Gods realm and his insistence on how we approach him and others (sociological).”
    No, I’m not mixing two different issues. There are no miracles. Not even prayer work, that phenomenon has been studied and demonstrated in the wrong. If there where two different kinds of reality like you said; then it one [Science] would be completely false. You need to understand science to understand that previous statement.
    I’m reading your later posts and have one more thing to say: -Stop judging people, that’s your imaginary friend’s job. 🙂

  31. Thunder Says:

    * Yes it does. *

    What you said was that the old testament tells me to kill gay people. You are wrong.

    * I quote Leviticus 20:13 KJV *

    That is irrelevant. I`ve already told you it is a mistake to think that understanding scripture is merely a matter of committing it to memory. However that is exactly the mistake you make here in spades.

    * I thought you knew the Old Testament *

    I know it better than you do. I know that levitical law was part of a covenant between God and the jews. It was never inclusive of gentiles of which I was born a non-jew (gentile). Also, I was inducted into the service of God by the gospel of christ which is the new testament.

    * Where does it say this? Chapter? Verse? *

    2 timothy 3:16.

    * You mean like not accepting Jesus in their hearts? *

    I tell you what I mean. You don`t tell me what I mean. That phrase is NOT in the scripture. It is cryptic and can lead to misunderstanding.

    * I quote some guys here: Matthew 10:33; Luke 12:8; John 13:14-17 Actually use the bible to contradict it self like Romans 2:13-15, that is even more amusing. *

    Your ignorance allows your laughter. There is no contradiction. The first two verses are speaking about the rejection of Jesus as it is being preached to them by the preists of God. The verse in romans is speaking about those who adopt the law by nature though it had not ever went out to them. You misquote john 13:14-17.

    * Also, try learning about him [Gandhi]. *

    Don`t tell me what to do. Learning about him can`t change the position that I have given you about him. And you don`t know what I have learned.

    * I assure you [you] will find much to like from this figure. *

    What I know or will find out about him is irrelevant to the conversation.

    * Unqualified? *

    Absolutely, definately unqualified.

    * You mean just like you are of the Qu’ran right? *

    I know more about the koran than you know about the bible and that isn`t saying much. BUT, I`m not pretending to know more than I do.

    * If you are unqualified to deny the Qu’ran *

    I`m not unqualified to deny it. To deny is a prerogative and an acceptation of the consequences of that denial.

    * how are you qualified to say your religion is true and theirs is not? *

    I already answered this question. If you didn`t listen the first time you won`t listen now either.