23rd January 2008

“The U.S. was the one ‘first world’ country that seemed immune to popular secularization. But survey data leaves no doubt that the nation is undergoing a delayed yet rapid secularization.”

Gregory Paul

33 Responses to “23rd January 2008”

  1. Chris Says:

    Can anyone give a reference for this? Ideally somehting that tracks over time. I’ve heard this before but not researched the numbers.

    Here is an interesting 2004 study from Pew Forum:

    http://pewforum.org/publications/surveys/green.pdf

    This section was about what I’d expect:
    %pop Repub Indep Demo
    Unaffiliated 16.0 27% 30 43
    Unaffiliated Believers 5.3 28% 37 35
    Secular 7.5 29% 27 44
    Atheist, Agnostic 3.2 19% 27 54

  2. Chris Says:

    Nuts – my columns didn’t work. Sorry.

  3. Critic Says:

    Chris,

    How about this.

    %popRepubIndepDemo
    Unaffiliated16.0%27%30%43%
    Unaffiliated Believers5.3%28%37%35%
    Secular7.5%29%27%44%
    Atheist, Agnostic3.2%19%27%54%

    Critic

    “You`re STUPID! STUPID, STUPID, STUPID…..” Thunder, 1/22/08

  4. Critic Says:

    Nope. That did not work either.

    Critic

    “You`re STUPID! STUPID, STUPID, STUPID…..” Thunder, 1/22/08

  5. Chris Says:

    I like the new tag line!

  6. Nefari Says:

    # Chris Says:
    January 23rd, 2008 at 18:18

    I like the new tag line!
    =====

    A heartwarming reminder of Christian love, tolerance, and understanding. We are fortunate to be visited by his disciples.

  7. Critic Says:

    I like the new tag line!

    Thanks!

    I thought the sig was a good reminder of just how dumb we atheists really are.

    I’ll carry it with me forever as a badge of humility. Just when I think I may have made an intelligent comment, I’ll see that sig at the bottom and remember that I could never say anything that would be approved by Thunder – the impartial judge of all that is logical, reasonable, and intelligent.

    So, I have not come up with any new sources for the statistics Chris mentioned. Anyne else have better luck?

    Critic

    “You`re STUPID! STUPID, STUPID, STUPID…..” Thunder, 1/22/08

  8. Nefari Says:

    You may find some interesting data at ARDA, especially the quick stats: http://www.thearda.com/quickstats/qsdir.asp

    Looks to be more of a sampling around 2004-2006 than a study over time.

  9. Nefari Says:

    I take that back, a few do have some over time graphs.

  10. Thunder Says:

    * I like the new tag line! *

    So do I.

    * A heartwarming reminder of Christian love *

    Yes, it is actually. However, you, being the self-centered sort you don`t find defense of children of particular use to you. A child murderer or their complicitors have no room to upbraid anyone else about any lack of love.

    * tolerance *

    That is another attitude that atheists have no room to chastise anyone else for exhibiting a lack of…… Still, tolerance is not a christian word. Forbearance is christian. Patience is christian. Tolerance is defeatism. It has nothing to do with christianity.

    * and understanding. *

    So, since I don`t itemize my objections to give you room to mask your ignorances and effigies of me, you`re going to insinuate that I have not exhaustively constructed my position.

  11. Critic Says:

    You may find some interesting data at ARDA

    Great link. Thanks.

    Amazing that 75% of people think there is life after death. Wishful thinking is very popular.

    And here is where the religious idiots really shine: 40% think that humans did NOT evolve from an earlier species. Of course, the respondents may not have understood the question ;{>}

    Oh, what the fuck, I can’t help myself:

    …you`re going to insinuate that I have not exhaustively constructed my position.

    I’m sure that his position was EXHAUSTIVELY constructed – the problem is that even after all that hard work, talking to himself and to his imaginary friend with sweat beading up on his brow, he is still in a position pitiful self-inflicted ignorance.

    Critic

    “You`re STUPID! STUPID, STUPID, STUPID…..” Thunder The Great Christian Philosopher , 1/22/08

  12. Critic Says:

    Forbearance is christian.

    Forebearance OF christians, especially the noisy and confused ones, is what tries my patience and annoys me beyond my tolerance level.

    Critic

    “You`re STUPID! STUPID, STUPID, STUPID…..” Thunder the Noisy and Confused, 1/22/08

  13. Thunder Says:

    * he is still in a position pitiful self-inflicted ignorance. *

    I`m calling you out. Leave your usual weapons at home and bring only logic and reason. You don`t have the nuts!

  14. Thunder Says:

    * Forebearance OF christians, especially the noisy and confused ones, is what tries my patience and annoys me beyond my tolerance level. *

    Your perception of my confusion is concocted in your imagination. The script of your stereotypes is where you take it from.

  15. Chris Says:

    Nefari – I followed the link and went to the “Belief in God” survey results and was delighted to see that 1.7% of us “Sometimes believe in God”. I can imagine these as the “intercourse theists”…”oh God…yes…”

    Heh Heh Heh (luridly)

  16. Chris Says:

    Nefari – Forgot to say thanks! That’s good information you posted. If you look at the religiousity by education it’s obvious why so many religions are hostile to secular education.

  17. Chris Says:

    I like what T-dawg wrote. He admits that tolerance is unchristian. We’ve been warned. The American Taliban is on the march.

    Forbearance
    1. The act of forbearing.
    2. Tolerance and restraint in the face of provocation; patience. See Synonyms at patience.
    3. The quality of being forbearing.
    4. Law The act of a creditor who refrains from enforcing a debt when it falls due.

    T chose an interesting word. Restraint in the face of provocation. He hangs around in an atheist forum spouting religiogibberish and somehow it’s the atheists that are being provocative. The word itself has a “chinese water torture” feel to it that simultaneously asserts the wrongness of it’s target and threatens “we will overcome”. And in this case, both assertions are false.

  18. Critic Says:

    I like what T-dawg wrote. He admits that tolerance is unchristian. We’ve been warned. The American Taliban is on the march.

    Yes, I’m sure he would like to command the cleansing of the infidels…..in the name of god…as usual.

    As a great expounder of logic and reason, his whole philosophy of life is based on a groundless assertion. His silly little conversion experience, event or whatever it actually was (did you get hold of some bad weed T-dawg?) seems to have completely boggled his mind. As evidence I submit the following.

    “You`re STUPID! STUPID, STUPID, STUPID…..”

    Seems to sum up his situation fairly well.

    Chris wrote: I can imagine these as the “intercourse theists”…”oh God…yes…”

    Now I like that idea very much.

    Critic

    “You`re STUPID! STUPID, STUPID, STUPID…..” Thunder the Intolerant, 1/22/08

  19. Critic Says:

    If you look at the religiousity by education it’s obvious why so many religions are hostile to secular education.

    Same with evolution. The percentage of folks who do not accept evolution drops by half with the acquisition of a bachelors degree. That is somewhat heartening. Education can elevate some from their Iron Age understanding of the world. As always, we should support the broadest access possible to higher education. That would be a deathblow to the religious stranglehold on American culture.

    Critic

    “You`re STUPID! STUPID, STUPID, STUPID…..” Thunder the Iron-Age Philosopher, 1/22/08

  20. Thunder Says:

    * If you look at the religiousity by education it’s obvious why so many religions are hostile to secular education. *

    I`d lay odds I`m more educated than most of you! You do NOT KNOW ME!

  21. Thunder Says:

    * He hangs around in an atheist forum spouting religiogibberish and somehow it’s the atheists that are being provocative. *

    I`m trying to provoke that famous reason and logic I keep hearing about (mainly from you). All you can do is talk down to someone you don`t even know. I didn`t come on this forum saying you were stupid. I arrived at that conclusion based upon what you have been saying and the attitudes you have been exhibiting. Yours is a prejudice: you earned my perception of you.

  22. Terence Meaden Says:

    “The notion that people will give up irrational beliefs when presented with solid evidence is itself an irrational belief, unsupported by the evidence.” George Lakoff

  23. Terence Meaden Says:

    “There are two ways of looking at the world—through faith and superstition, or through the rigours of logic . . . We live in dangerous times when superstition is gaining ground and rational science is under attack.” Richard Dawkins. 2007. The Enemies of Reason. Channel 4 TV.

  24. Nefari Says:

    Quoting Thunder:
    Yes, it is actually. However, you, being the self-centered sort you don`t find defense of children of particular use to you. A child murderer or their complicitors have no room to upbraid anyone else about any lack of love.

    Quoting Thunder again:
    You don`t know me. Don`t pretend to.

  25. Nefari Says:

    *I can imagine these as the “intercourse theists”…”oh God…yes…”*

    I’m guilty of that. 🙂

    The occasional goddammit is nice too. At moments of weakness, I’ll suspend my disbelief long enough to hurl a few curses.

  26. Nefari Says:

    *Forgot to say thanks! That’s good information you posted. If you look at the religiousity by education it’s obvious why so many religions are hostile to secular education.*

    Very welcome. Nice to contribute. Been watching quietly for some months now.

    I had to stop perusing that site because it depresses me.

  27. Nefari Says:

    *As always, we should support the broadest access possible to higher education. That would be a deathblow to the religious stranglehold on American culture.*

    Interesting thought. I wonder if that’s why some of the European nations, with their free access to higher education have a more enlightened, and thus less dogmatic, population.

  28. Thunder Says:

    * Nefari Says : You don`t know me. Don`t pretend to. *

    I`ll respond to your questioning my christian convictions.

  29. qwerty Says:

    Thunder “* If you look at the religiousity by education it’s obvious why so many religions are hostile to secular education. *

    I`d lay odds I`m more educated than most of you! You do NOT KNOW ME!”

    Even after higher education 20% still do not believe in evolution (this would be you assuming you fall into this category)

    More importantly he wasn’t even talking about you but general trends in society. Please try to see things beyond yourself.

    btw: what markup language does this forum use? any list of usable commands?

  30. qwerty Says:

    ok…its html….still is there a list of tags? 😛

  31. qwerty Says:

    found the wordpress documentation….I’m sorry for all the bad questions and multiple posts. delete if necessary >.<

  32. Thunder Says:

    * Even after higher education 20% still do not believe in evolution *

    Now that figure would depend on how ‘higher education’ is defined. Probably a more accurate measure (making an assumption as to what is intended to be indicated) would be how many of those who before their education believed and afterwards did not.

    * (this would be you assuming you fall into this category) *

    Which category? The higher education or the believing in evolution? I am educated the nature of which I will not divuldge. I will say it is more than four years and it is science based. That is as far as I will go. I have not taken a position on evolution on this forum. It is presumptive of anyone to claim that I have. It is invaluable to my ability to evaluate who I`m talking to….

    * More importantly he wasn’t even talking about you but general trends in society. *

    He mentioned religions as though monolithic. I`m of the more realistic opinion that there are at least as many religions as there are people in the world.

    * Please try to see things beyond yourself. *

    I didn`t create the atmosphere. My position just kicked up the sediment of contempt that I hate to breath so I cough.

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