27th July 2011

“Just a thought, but aren't teenagers just about the most compelling argument against Intelligent Design you ever came across?”

Anon.

33 Responses to “27th July 2011”

  1. solomon Says:

    With the right coaching, teenagers are the easiest lots to convince regarding intelligent design. Its a simple straight forward concept like A,B,C. All that is needed is only a clean heart.

  2. Atheist MC Says:

    No. There are much more compelling arguments against intelligent design than teenagers. Although adolescence is good evidence for evolution.

  3. Dan Says:

    Solomon,
    It’s not coaching, it’s brainwashing with assertions devoid of evidence. Give children the evidence and ask them questions about what they see without assertions, and they come to the same answers every time. UNLESS they’ve been brainwashed and emotionally bullied by Christians or Muslims, etc.

    And a “clean heart” has nothing to do with it. All you have to do is kill the curiosity in a child. Education must start with teaching children the value of inquiry.

  4. Dan Says:

    More on the education bit: A great way to show a child that intelligent design and creationism require a closed mind include visiting a museum full of fossils, and pointing out several things such as…
    – Every species appears to have arisen at a place and time adjacent to very related species
    – The older the fossils, the less similar they are to current life on Earth

    Children aren’t stupid, they can figure it out for themselves.

    Alternatively, you can take them to a children’s cancer ward at a hospital, and ask them, “If there was a god that did this to people, why would you worship it?” You could then ask how there could be a plan that lead to very bad things happening to innocent or good people.

    Oh, and you can teach the children about the different schools of philosophical thought, and also about comparative religion. (It was actually a book by Joseph Campbell on comparative religion that sealed the deal for me in becoming an atheist.)

  5. solomon Says:

    Prove it Dan, don’t just talk.
    Prove it in what context the teenagers is not accepting intelligent design.

  6. Dan Says:

    Solly,
    We have the fossils. You have a book of mythology. Do you really think that even children can’t figure it out which is the more reliable?

  7. R J Says:

    boys, boys……………….

    you’re missing the whole point of the quote.

  8. R J Says:

    DAN…………………..

    WHICH book by joseph campbell ?????? i waana read it

  9. electrabotanical Says:

    Obviously a snarky quote. Everyone knows that I was a perfect specimen of a teenager, and that is proof that the pinnacle of Evolution is a young woman in the prime of her health and energy. Alas, that was many years ago… but my exboyfriends and I remember it well.

  10. electrabotanical Says:

    Teenagers/adolescents are designed to be adventurous, to break new ground and move the species forward (if they manage not to kill themselves). It’s actually a great trait in humans. If everyone thought like an old fart and stayed put and stayed satisfied with where they were, there would be less innovation by humans and less energy in the culture overall.

    It takes tradition and innovation to make a society. It’s the job of the young ‘uns to challenge whether traditions are still a useful tool in a society – and I’m happy to say that many of them are finding cynicism regarding religion. That’s how mine are being raised – with a healthy dose of cynicism courtesy of George Carlin, (patron saint of blasphemy, may he decay in peace).

  11. R J Says:

    now look here electrabotanical……………………

    i’m sure you were a wonderful teenager….a joy to your parents…..

    and an inspiration to all of your peers !!!!!

    but, perfection ?? i KNOW i was perfect !!! there’s really no other word

    to describe my glorious teens ( HAH ! ) and may i modestly say

    my wonderfulness just keeps on and on !! ( HAH ! )

    i’d like to hear a little bit about what you and your boyfriends were up to !!

    camping…hiking…clog dancing ???? stuff like that ????

  12. R J Says:

    I KNEW IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    i KNEW you were a George Carlin fan !!!!!!!!

  13. solomon Says:

    Dan,

    Your fossils are a clear example that evolution is a hoax. Provide fossil proofs of the gradual transformation from ape to man that must have existed in abundance if evolution was true.

  14. solomon Says:

    Girls….girls….
    Always think they’re perfect….
    Never mind…..It’s only in their minds.

  15. Atheist MC Says:

    Provide fossil proofs of the gradual transformation from ape to man that must have existed in abundance if evolution was true.

    As you well know, because you have been told before; fossils do not exist in abundance as the processes and conditions that allow them are rare. However there is, despite that, plenty of fossil evidence for the evolution of modern humans through a variety of more ape-like forms. Go to a museum…

  16. solomon Says:

    So……in other words there is no real evidence for proofs. So don’t claim evolution took place.

  17. meryt Says:

    Sol,

    You are asking for evidence that does not exist because man did not evolve from the apes BUT they do share a common ancestor. Of that there is absolutely no question. One just has to look at the DNA evidence and the fossil record. Is fear of facing the truth holding you back?

  18. Atheist MC Says:

    Well no Solly, that is not what I said. I said the kind of evidence you are demanding, we would not expect to exist. However the level of evidence that does exist supports evolution from a common ancestor that we share with modern apes. This is further corroberated by DNA analysis of humans and modern apes (several species) DNA analysis of human races supports the hypothesis that there were several migrations and diversifications from an African, sub saharan pool and in that area we find fossil hominims in circumstances consistent with their evolution from “more primitive” ape like ancestors. On the other hand, the hypothesis that modern humans were created out of dust/clay/spare ribs/vomit (pick your mythology) 6000 years ago is supported by exactly no evidence whatsoever.

  19. Atheist MC Says:

    BTW Solly, I thought you promised admin you would attempt to explain your position. Since we frequently do you the courtesy of explaining ours, it would be nice if you returned the favour.

  20. Jeff Says:

    I must respectfully disagree with today’s quote – the most compelling argument against intelligent design is a physical layout that puts a recreation area next to a waste processing plant, and even shares some equipment between the two.

    That is neither intelligent city planning nor intelligent biological design.

  21. CaptainZero Says:

    I “taught the controversy” to my 11 year old daughter. I tried my level best to advocate fairly for creation and evolution to see what she made of it. Her conclusion? “Dad, the god stuff just doesn’t make any sense.” I’ve found that the people that deny evolution don’t understand it and have a bunch of misconceptions about the process it describes.

    The above conversation is a good example of the difference between the religious and naturalistic mindsets:
    Solly – “You have no proof!!!”
    RJ – “WHICH book by joseph campbell ?????? i waana read it”
    Books? Fancy that!

    You need more than one book to consider yourself educated. To say there is no proof for the FACT of evolution is to admit oneself grossly uninformed.

    Fossil evidence is great but even if we had NO fossils we’d still have enough evidence from morphology alone to assert evolution as fact. But then you have genetics as well. And geology (to tell you the time was sufficient for the process to act). Don’t believe geology? How about astrophysics. Plate tectonics? A Garden of Eden of sciences that mystifyingly all agree with each other up against…what? Old books written by people who hadn’t yet figured out that slavery is immoral? Please.

    We can see evolution in the lab and have documented it in the wild. To see it requires brains, not hearts. If only the religionists would emerge from their emotional hidey-holes they might crack open a real book filled with real facts and actually learn something about the real world.

    P.S. – I think Anon is off base on this one. I haven’t read much on it but I suspect the risk taking behavior of teens is a crucial part of growing up and must have evolutionary roots.

  22. solomon Says:

    Evidence dear Dr. Watson…..
    Evidence….
    No fossil proofs…
    No transitions from ape to men…

  23. solomon Says:

    CaptainZero,

    Like father, Like daughter….
    Not so to other kids…

  24. solomon Says:

    Jeff,

    If there is no intelligent design involve, your nose might have been positioned upside down.
    See….its an easy circular rule..

  25. solomon Says:

    Atheist MC,

    Regarding my position, I felt it is too early to reveal, as it would jeopardise my planning or strategies. Let me coach you all level by level so that all can slowly and surely absorbed the essense of things & truth that I’am going to deliver.

  26. Jezebel Says:

    There is nothing intelligent about the ‘design’ of the human body. Ask any physiologist and they’ll tell you about a number of obvious ‘mistakes’. The eyes, for example. Light entering our eyes has to pass through blood vessels in order to hit the photo-receptors. And if the human body was ‘designed’, why did the architect route the male urethra directly through the middle of the prostate gland and cause incredible problems for men? Why is the anus right next to the reproductive tract? If someone was responsible for all that methinks they’re a bit sick.

  27. Dan Says:

    RJ,
    Sorry for the delay. I was traveling. The book though is the Power of Myth, which I was introduced to by the Bill Moyers interview of Campbell and George Lucas in 1988. The gist of the story goes that Campbell’s career has been devoted to studying the fact that the content of religious myths don’t matter, only the “cultural narrative” matters. What got me was the juxtaposition that it had through Star Wars – Lucas wrote the screenplays for the original trilogy with the thought that a “modern-day myth” would be a great sell in box offices. And it got me thinking: if Star Wars worked so well at it, literally any fictional narrative functioned just as well in place of an actual religion, then why does anyone find any value at all in religion? If LOTR, Harry Potter, and Star Wars taught us lessons about values and ideals, then religion truly was a waste of time and energy.

  28. Dan Says:

    Solomon,

    Provide fossil proofs of the gradual transformation from ape to man that must have existed in abundance if evolution was true.

    Okay, here you go, 20 hominid species’ fossils, ranging from an ape-like common ancestor with Chimpanzees, to humans:

    Sahelanthropus tchadensis
    Ardipithecus ramidus
    Australopithecus anamensis
    Australopithecus afarensis
    Kenyanthropus platyops
    Australopithecus africanus
    Australopithecus garhi
    Australopithecus sediba
    Australopithecus aethiopicus
    Australopithecus robustus
    Australopithecus boisei
    Homo habilis
    Homo georgicus
    Homo erectus
    Homo ergaster
    Homo antecessor
    Homo heidelbergensis
    Homo neanderthalensis
    Homo floresiensis
    Homo sapiens

    Meanwhile, where is your proof that a human being can be made from dirt? We’ve got 20 transitional species (not just 1 or 2!!), and you’ve got mythology. We win. 🙂

  29. solomon Says:

    Dan,

    I don’t buy that. I won’t even peep at those cheap stuffs you’re pulling.

  30. solomon Says:

    Jezebel,

    It’s very fortunate enough your nose is not design upside down. Dare to criticize God’s complicated creations. Try to design and build a single cell if you can.

  31. Dan Says:

    Sol,
    Typical. When you can’t deal with the fossils, you just ignore them. It’s quite the dishonest tactic that you’re using.

  32. solomon Says:

    Those fossils are bits and pieces of skulls found nowhere which barely describes the rest of its body structure purposely arranged in chronological time order and claimed to be the transition process. A primary school kids could accomplish that feat.

  33. Dan Says:

    Solomon,
    And where did you hear those lies?