10th February 2008

“We desperately need a shared set of secular values that are not based upon religious faith, but which will survive when the faith dies. We undermine this effort every time we look to religions for moral leadership. And the religious do similar damage when they claim, illogically, that there can be no basis for morality in the absence of a god.”

Minette Marrin

6 Responses to “10th February 2008”

  1. Terence Meaden Says:

    “Morality must have arisen long before modern religion came around to lay claim to it. Michael Shermer engagingly brings this controversial topic to life. This is the most convincing argument to date that the origin of our sense of right and wrong is to be found within us, that it is part and parcel of human nature.”
    Frans de Waal, author of ‘Good Natured’, who reviewed in February 2004 Michael Shermer’s book on ‘Good and Evil’.

  2. thunder Says:

    Just as I said. It is a religion.

  3. Terence Meaden Says:

    Oh no it isn’t.
    Religion–at bottom–has nothing to do with it.

    “To ask about the ‘source’ of rights or morals assumes an erroneous conclusion.
    To ask about the source of morals is to assume that such a source exists. As if it existed outside of human constructed systems.
    The ‘source’ is the human ability to learn from experience and to entrench rights in our laws and in our consciousness.
    Our rights come from our long history of wrongs.” Alan Dershowitz.

  4. Critic Says:

    Just as I said. It is a religion.

    Now you’re being nasty. Even cruel.

    What have we ever said to you that would elicit such a venom, such vituperation, such vitriol, such very very mean stuff.

    You should be ashamed to defame such a noble non-belief system as atheism with the scatalogical utterance of religiosity.

    As atheist we do not submit our will to a primitive murdering god or his sex obsessed prophets. Instead, we view reason as the purpose of life. Wonder and uncertainty as the realities of life. Death as the end of life. True joy occurs when you realize your place in the universe and that the universe could not care one bit about you and your joy.

    Now, stop with this insulting bullshit and try to say something intelligent.

    I dare you.

  5. thunder Says:

    * Oh no it isn’t. *

    It is. Like it, don`t like it….. doesn`t matter. It is called the religion of self. One of the beefs that I have with sagan is his part played in the documentation of the values being called for by the above quote in the humanist manifesto (x3?).

  6. thunder Says:

    * Now you’re being nasty. Even cruel. *

    No.

    * What have we ever said to you that would elicit such a venom *

    No venom there but to answer your question about what you have done that (should have) pissed me off…… I have not stopped telling you that. I resent each of you for not approaching your responses to me with objectivity. You can have it the way you say you want it. No one is denying you that except yourself.

    * You should be ashamed….. *

    I`m ashamed of a lot of things but nothing that I have posted on this forum lacks honesty.

    * Now, stop….. *

    No insult and no I will stop when I choose to.

    * try to say something intelligent. *

    I`ve been proficient in the subject at hand and you have not. You actually think it is virtuous to speak of it ignorantly. I think it is intelligent as well as virtuous to keep silent about the things I lack knowledge of.

    * I dare you. *

    You dare me to say something you deem intelligent. I don`t hold you an authority on intelligence.