10th December 2011

“The atheist does not say 'there is no God,' but he says 'I know not what you mean by God; I am without idea of God'; the word 'God' is to me a sound conveying no clear or distinct affirmation.”

Charles Bradlaugh1833 – 1891

14 Responses to “10th December 2011”

  1. john Says:

    This quote is bul**t, i will readily say there is no god,i have a full and thorough understanding of the concept theists wish to convey when they utter the word god, and i regard this concept as a flawed one,in that just because something can exist in the imagination of man, its existence in that imagination does not convey any objective reality to a man made abstraction.The word for such a belief that imagination has been extrapolated into reality is…DELUSION.Delusion can be sucesfully treated by education.Education can be administered in many secular places.

  2. Dan Says:

    I usually prefer to phrase it as simply saying that ‘gods don’t exist,’ ‘aren’t real,’ or something to that effect.

  3. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    Hey John, There is a flip side to delusion and that is that delusion can successfully be applied through education. Particularly by educating children to the delusion at an age where they can’t objectively evaluate the information being thrust upon them.

    The atrocious thing is that subjecting children to early delusion education (EDE) lays the foundation for mental illnesses like sociopathy and psychopathy.

    The singularly significant symptom, pardon the alliteration, is the tendency for blind faith or the adherence to dogma in light of facts and evidence that disputes it.

    In this forum we have seen Xhim talk about nonsense like a religious worldview and solomon endlessly babbles nonsense never offering a resource to validate his outlandish statements. These traits are identifiers of a person that casually suspends reason and logic and that is “the crazy person”.

    The danger permeates society as the most dangerous, enabled by those less dangerous, float freely among us killing, raping, and thieving. Is there any wonder why the prisons are filled with the faithful, yet devoid of the atheist?

    We need to instead imagine a world where their is no religion. A world where the people are, as you say John, educated. With an emphasis on reason and logic, where nature supplants the supernatural, where fear based morality is tossed upon the ash heap, therein lies the future.

    I know what is meant by god. God doesn’t matter, things that don’t exist don’t matter. That no matter how distinctly one affirms god does not give rise to anything important. Without evidence there is nothing.

    What is important are people and our planet, and the species we share this planet with, our Earthly way of life and living.

    Religion and belief in god(s) is but a tiny kernal of our past that means nothing and should be forgotten. Religion is less than the a symbolic cross, less than the totem pole, less than some Egyptian amulet, less than then moon and stars.

    There is no space in the future for Christ or Mohammed beyond that which exists in a museum next to the witch doctor and magi.

    People love freedom and beyond the Arab Spring and its political oppression unleashed, is the demise of faith. A wave of reason and logic is rolling over the planet and if we can escape our “presentism” for a moment and imagine 10 years from now a headline “Is This The End of Faith” will be read all across the world.

    Atheism isn’t a creed, there are no fundamentalist atheists, or a doctrine of atheism, and this is precisely why faith will fail. It is why every faith that ever existed has eventually failed and why the last few are failing now.

    You can sense it in the thoughts and words of the faithful, their body language, their hypocrisy and division, the end of faith is near.

    The meek are about to inherit the world.

  4. holysmokes Says:

    I guess I have to disagree with you folks on this one. Speaking in “absolutes” is never a wise way to approach something like this. In fact, that is exactly what theologians and the religious do.

    Even science avoids speaking in absolutes. Most people think that science is in the business of proving things, however that is not correct. Science simply performs experiments and draw conclusions based on the findings. Even the law of gravity is not proven. It has simply never been shown to be wrong.

    To definitively state that a god does not exist is not logical. I think the correct way to look at this is to point out that there has never been any evidence to support the notion, hence there is no reason to believe in the first place. Although I agree with the remainder your comments which basically show the foolishness of believing, we still should never proclaim that we are certain regarding this topic.

    I agree with this quote.

  5. The Heretic Says:

    I agree with holysmokes. You cannot say there isn’t a god. Have you proof of this? What you can say is that you have seen no proof of their god or any other.
    I am always willing to be swayed on that notion if he/she shows up and says ‘Howdy’. Then he/she can prove to me that he/she deserves that moniker; and further, that he/she requires any obsequious grovelling to fulfill a narcissistic formality of the title.

  6. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    Holysmokes and Heretic I think you are setting the bar to high. We can set it so high that nothing can be proven or accepted as fact, or we can set it so low that everything is accepted. Science does neither. We may say Evolution is a theory in the strictly scientific sense but the number of scientists that don’t accept it as fact wouldn’t half fill a phone booth.

    Likewise we can say with all the certainty necessary that the supernatural isn’t natural, that Harry Potter is make believe, and we can say god does not exist.

    So I would ask you both to reconsider, as it would not be logical to say evolution wasn’t accepted as fact, it isn’t logical to enable the wildest of notions: a god might exist.

    Long before you argue whether or not a god exists you simply must define the possibility that a god could exist. That hasn’t happened. Therefore it is illogical to speak in terms of a possibility that hasn’t even been defined.

    Nessie of the Loch, Sasquatch, pick your absurdity, God doesn’t exist!

  7. Dan Says:

    Holysmokes,

    To definitively state that a god does not exist is not logical.

    Right but practically speaking, it’s completely normal. We don’t have a problem saying that ghosts, angels and demons don’t exist, now do we? Why should there be a practical problem to saying that gods don’t exist? Not to mention, our collected knowledge of the universe certainly leads me and many other atheists to the inescapable conclusion that gods are merely anthropomorphized ideals. “Saint” Augustine’s theology affirms this conclusion.
    TheHeretic,

    You cannot say there isn’t a god.

    Sure you can. See my response to Holysmokes.

  8. reetBob Says:

    I like the quote. I think people who declare themselves atheist are likely to have a clearer understanding of the potential contradictions in any definition of God than the average christian.

  9. holysmokes Says:

    Dan: I wouldn’t say that ghosts, angels or demons do not exist. What I would say is there is no evidence to support the concepts. I am not stating an absolute, but am being being factual. No evidence equates to no reason to believe in the first place. Insisting they do not exist is not logical because such a claim is simply not backed by evidence.

    Sinjin Smythe: I understand your point, however the point I made to Dan applies in your case as well. We have no reason to believe. There is no bar to be set regarding a higher power, however there is no evidence to completely rule out one either, regardless of how miniscule the possibility. I see no logic in proclaiming that anything is impossible without evidence. Regarding your Harry Potter analogy: I am not a large fan of analogies, however we have a large pile of evidence showing him as make believe.

    I accept evolution as fact due to the hundreds of millions of pieces of evidence supporting it. Is it proven? No. Again, science does not prove things, therefore proclaiming any absolute is not logical.

    I suspect that we will have to agree to disagree. I respect your opinion, but do not agree with it. Stating something to be true or false in absolute terms requires absolute proof. It’s never going to happen on any subject, including the god argument.

  10. s0l0m0n Says:

    If God did’nt exists, even you all won’t exist.

  11. Dan Says:

    Holysmokes,
    Yeah, we’re not in much disagreement I think. Because technically speaking, you’re right, you can’t definitively say that anything like this doesn’t exist. But what I’m saying is that, practically speaking, no one should have to even give the matter a thought. You say it yourself: “We have no reason to believe,” and I only add that we also have no reason to consider the matter seriously.

  12. Admin Says:

    Sol, if we didn’t exist, we wouldn’t have been able to make up so many gods throughout our history (including yours)

  13. holysmokes Says:

    Agreed Dan.

  14. Dan Says:

    Solomon,
    You’ve got it backwards. The correct way to say it is, “If we all (humans) didn’t exist, gods wouldn’t exist.”