2nd March 2012

“Christianity has collapsed because none of its supernatural claims are true.”

Anon.

11 Responses to “2nd March 2012”

  1. Edmond Says:

    A hopeful quote from the future?

  2. The Heretic Says:

    Did Islam collapse with it?

  3. Xhim Says:

    Whatever hopes for the future… talk about undocumented statements!

  4. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    Supernatural: If you can’t measure it or understand it, if it isn’t visible or is beyond the senses, impossible to observe, how do you know it exists?

    Well you can postulate. It isn’t knowing but people can suppose or hypothesize. We can postulate about the existence of dark matter for instance, as a basis for reasoning, discussion, or belief about the nature of the universe.

    Sure we can postulate the existence of god but why? What is the need?

    We need to understand our universe because it is where we live. We don’t need god to live. If no one ever spoke of god ever again what difference would that make?

    Well maybe you can answer this question, but what about the answer says we need to construct a deity worship system around this postulation?

    We don’t construct ornate riturals to honor the postulation of dark matter.

    By definition god is a postulation, there is no evidence, nothing to quantify, identify, or substantiate god. It is by religion’s own admission acceptable on faith alone. Faith is held to be a virtue by religion.

    Seeing that god is a postulation alone, who is it to say he wants us to live this way or that way, who is to say he is even a he?

    This is assumption, presumption, conjecture. The bible by its own admission can’t be god’s word as it violates the fundamental definition of supernatural. What is god’s is not knowable.

    Once god becomes knowable, god becomes natural, god is no longer god. That god would exist subordinate to the natural, the laws of nature, makes god no more god than you or I.

  5. Dan Says:

    Xhim,
    Yes, there are still those who believe that Christianity hasn’t fallen. There are also those who still believe in psychics, the Zodiac and alternative medicine. There are people all over the world in fact who still ascribe to out-dated beliefs. What’s your point? That people who go to church or visit psychics proves that Christianity and psychics aren’t hoaxes?

  6. Xhim Says:

    Dan. not at all. Although I of course don’t think it’s a hoax, I question “Mr Anon”‘s bold statement that C-ity has fallen. If it really is a hoax, then putting the statement in future tense would be reasonable. But the percentage of this world’s denizens who call themselves Xians is still – barely – growing. “Has collapsed” seems a bit hopeful for the current reality.

  7. Xhim Says:

    Sinjin, to avoid being offensive to you, the recent growth-rate of 1.32% comes from
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups#Trends_in_adherence
    (see #4 “Trends in Adherence”)

  8. Dan Says:

    Xhim,
    I’m quite sure that people convinced of the truth of other religions, psychic powers, etc., would give exactly the same explanations of how those hoaxes are in fact not hoaxes, and alive and well. Except that such explanations don’t support anything other than the hoax itself is alive and well.

  9. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    Numerous surveys indicate that the proportion of individuals who do not hold religious beliefs is steadily increasing.
    http://www.humanism.org.uk/campaigns/religion-and-belief-surveys-statistics

    By 2008, the percentage of Christians had reached 76% and is believed to be continuing its decline.
    http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm

    Chaves, director of the National Congregations Study, took another look at research showing indicators of traditional beliefs and practices are either stable or falling in a nation that is a symbol of the staying power of religion in the West.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-briggs/is-religion-in-america-in_b_843801.html

    From 1990 to 2000, the combined membership of all Protestant denominations in the USA declined by almost 5 million members (9.5 percent), while the US population increased by 24 million (11 percent).
    http://www.intothyword.org/articles_view.asp?articleid=36557

    Religion may become extinct in nine nations, study says
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197

  10. Xhim Says:

    Dan, that’s precisely the point. Assuming it is a hoax, “the hoax is alive and well.” That is a far cry from “fallen.” As Sinjin points out, if Anon had given a specific country or region to claim Xity had fallen, his statement would be far more credible. I would immediately concede that for Europe, and, though it may be a bit premature, North Am is well on the way. I read the statement to mean in toto, worldwide. And worldwide there is still a tiny bit of growth.

  11. Dan Says:

    Xhim,
    Okay, if that’s how you mean it then no problem. However I was thinking that the spirit of the quote, and my comments for certain, were taking “Christianity” in this instance as referring to the factual basis for the theology, and not as a social phenomenon as you are.

    But I’ll concede as I have in the past that both ways of looking at Christianity, or religion in general, are valid in the correct contexts. 🙂