26th March 2012

“Far from being hostile to religion, secularists are supremely indifferent to it. Their objection is to religious-based doctrines, laws, and customs being forced on the entire community in order to appease strident religious authorities who do not trust their adherents to live within the code of the faithful unless it is enforced by civil law.”

Emer O'Kelly

13 Responses to “26th March 2012”

  1. jhm Says:

    I guess this is true, but—as a secularist myself, ergo possibly not the best one to know or judge—I wonder how far the two can be separated, or, once separated, can the religion can long endure.

  2. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    My mom thinks I’m becoming a Massachusetts liberal because I think Rick Santorum is a potentially dangerous sociopath.

    Dear woman was indoctrinated into Catholicism as a child and raised poor. She is very smart but shaking off that brainwashing and the memories of being poor are very difficult.

    I can envision Santorum attempting to insert religious ideas into American government. Nothing in my mind could be more dangerous.

    The last time a Catholic had control of a powerful nation millions of Jews were murdered. Not that I am amp’d up about saving Jews but I have no desire to see them dead either.

    What choice does a Republican atheist have this election? Obama?

  3. Dan Says:

    jhm,
    Of course you’re probably right that religion wouldn’t endure that separation for all that long, in all probability. Or if it did, it would survive by (probably violently) closing all of the secular institutions that we have, much like what happened in the 4th and 5th centuries CE.

    Of course however, we have to ask ourselves if we would miss religion if it were gone. And I can’t think of a single reason why we’d miss religion, gods, or the like.

  4. Open Mind Says:

    I’d rather believe in an all-encompassing loving father I’ve never seen before than a mundane life that was the result of a primordial accident.

    I’m looking for meaning and purpose because if there is no God, no pattern, no ‘bigger picture’ then WTF? Look, I know it’s easier to believe in ‘faerie tales’ than to accept that there is nothing above and beyond what you can see. But I, along with like a billion other ‘idiots’, take comfort in the possibility that there is a greater power. I think that everyone has the right to voice their opinions.

    And if chasing ‘ghosts’ and ‘fictitious accounts of historic events’ gives me a sense of purpose and self-worth, then let me live my fantasy. Some of us aren’t hurting anyone. We just want to ride this wave and chase the dream. Maybe there is a heaven. And I like to think it’s real. I can’t prove it but if I’m wrong, no harm no foul. So I’d really appreciate it if people would stop shitting on my faith.

  5. R J Says:

    OPEN MIND……………..
    ……………………………

    your post was a nice ”mini-summation ” of general

    religious feelings/ emotions/ beliefs……..that is , all

    but your last sentence.

    i would appreciate it, too, if people didnt shit on your faith.

    we all believe what we feel is right and true…………..and

    beliefs will differ. and that is where the ideal of ” live

    and let live ” SHOULD—REPEAT SHOULD— come

    into living. but humans, being what they are,

    ideals are often ignored…..and fail altogether.

    i KNOW there’s a lot of finger-pointing on both sides…..

    but SO WHAT ???

    if you;re solid with your beliefs…and you’re okay in

    your own head and heart……..then somebody taking

    pot-shots wont really amount to anything. irritating

    maybe, but BFD.

    c’mon back to this site join the contributors. i dont think

    these folks will shit on your ideas.

  6. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    Open Mind,

    “mundane life that was the result of a primordial accident” isn’t how I view a life without an unseen loving heavenly Father fantasy. I find life to be the best it can be, I don’t ever want to die.

    I also think meaning is what you make of it. I need no god to create meaning in my life, in fact the very idea is repugnant. If I had some great grand deity providing me meaning in my life I’d have to reject it outright if for no other reason than the sheer arrogance of the deity to presume I wanted anything from it. I create the meaning in my life! I stand alone! I exist!

    Then you have the audacity to suggest that it is we atheists, here in our own forum Atheist QOTD, that are shitting on your faith? That the inhumane torture you and your kind have subjected atheists too for thousands of years is something to not even be acknowledge? WOW!

    With religion’s history of flatly rotten behavior you have little ground to stand upon in saying “no harm no foul”. Religious belief is the single greatest threat to peoples the world over.

    You have some nerve! I suppose that is what one would expect of someone who chooses to believe in ghosts and fictional historical accounts. I mean if you can casually disregard the frankly rotten behavior of the many people of faith over the millenia then I suppose you would believe in all the wrong things.

    R j you know I think you are the best but this poor fellow is bananas!

  7. electrabotanical Says:

    Sinjin, how is openmind going to open his mind further to the possibility that science is a better answer and God is a delusion if you insult him right away. Bad politics, dude.

    Open Mind – learn a little more about the history of your beleifs. They’ll either be strengthened or questioned into nonexistance. Just don’t beleive everything your mom and preacher told you – they had an agenda!

  8. electrabotanical Says:

    Oh, and back to the quote – this is exactly why Freedom of Religion also encompasses freedom from religion. Those who don’t beleive in fairytales are not bound to follow those rules, and neither are they obligated not to make fun. There are no blasphemy laws in america because we have freedom of religion. Just as bible thumpers can call nonbeleivers all kinds of nasty names and ascribe horrible acts to them, so can nonbelievers tell the truth about the Jesus Freaks. Its just as insulting for Christians to assign athiests to hell as it is for athiests to call christians fools. It’s just that the payback has been so late coming that the Christians are clutching their pearls in horrified shock. Get over it and hold onto that “truth” you “beleive” in so much.

  9. Atheist MC Says:

    Ooh, ooh! Can I play, can I?
    This is a meaty quote and bears some consideration.
    Secularists come from all sorts of faith traditions, It’s not an atheist philosophy exclusively because it protects minority faiths from majoritarian persecution. This is why majority religions like to pin secularism on atheists.
    However, atheists do tend to embrace secularism more closely than the religious, because, probably , we actually care about the potential of persecution, not just of our own worldview but thatof other religions.

    @open mind
    I have some sympathy with Sinjin’s little rant. Faith is not a persecuted minority, it is the persecutor in all circumstances where it has had the opportunity. However, I will censure Sinjin for using the noun Santorum

  10. Atheist MC Says:

    Bollocks, I hate iPads
    ….for using the noun “Santorum” and the verb “insert” in the same sentence.

  11. Jeff Says:

    Your censure of Sinjin is absolutely correct, AMC – Santorum obviously leaks out, and can only be re-inserted after some recovery time has passed. Every person with whom I’ve ever created it can attest to both the leakage, and most can attest to the fun from the attempted re-insertion.

    Now that I’ve grossed out everyone on the forum, and admitted things about my life experience that make it a good thing that my name is the most common one for American males born the same year as myself… (Hackneyed, but LOL)

    As to your comments, Open Mind, when there’s no harm, I’m more than willing to go by soccer rules. However, since I’ve lost my flag, the right to serve in the military, the right to earn a buck that doesn’t offend me, and the right to register to vote without fear of being jailed, there are more than a few harms that have come my way. If you can’t figure out how those rights have been taken, read the back of a dollar bill, check the oath of military enlistment, and the juror’s oath at both the Federal and State levels (I’m from OHIO). At to the flag, read Newdow v. Rio Linda Union School District, issued by the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, 3/11/2010.

  12. R J Says:

    ELECTRABOTANICAL !!!!!

    oh, i LOVE it when you show up !!!! i want to run away

    with you !!!!!! you are a glowing celestial galaxy of wisdom……

    and i am a lowly earth-turd worshiping your wonderfuiness !!!!!

    so, what’s new ????

  13. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    Electra is funny, censures me then goes on about Jesus freaks and such: nothing insulting there.

    AMC you are correct the rank was an attempt at humor. I was attempting to convey on much the same level common to the indignant religious whacko. Oh well, tried and failed.