11th June 2012

“Conservative Americans have every right to support corporate greed, militarism, gun possession, and the death penalty, and to oppose welfare, food stamps, health care for those in need, etc. – it is just strange and contradictory when they claim these positions as somehow 'Christian.'”

Phil Zuckerman

11 Responses to “11th June 2012”

  1. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    Free enterprise, self-protection, and justice are hardly Christian ideas. Dependency, when we speak of the drug dealer, isn’t a prize: why is it when it becomes welfare or food stamps?

    It is strange and contradictory when liberals presume all conservatives are necessarily Christian.

    I don’t agree with just about any present day so-called conservative but the alternative liberal isn’t the flip side of the good evil coin either.

    I’m all for a safety net but it’s being served up as an alternative lifestyle, not a safety net. Ultimately moving people out of the net and back into productive contribution to society has to be the goal.

  2. Panzerbjørn Says:

    As someone who is in Europe and looking at the US, my personal observation, based on the news I read/watch, is that it seems like the vast majority of the conservative right also identify with Christianity.
    Hence the term ‘the christian right’. Intellectually I know that not all conservatives are necessarily Christian, but it certainly seems that way.
    How many American politicians are on record as saying that they are not Christian? And of those, how many have not claimed another religion as their own?

    Personally I find the polarisation of American politics hard to understand. Where I’m from (Northern Europe) we have a social security net to catch people and then assist them in getting back on their own feet.
    Surely a better middle ground than either of the two options which you seem to mention as options…?

  3. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    Well Panzer your take on the matter is fair and likely common.

    To your credit I’d say that on the left, here in the states, you would be hard pressed to find many add “and then assist them in getting back on their own feet” as you have. I am in complete support of a safety net that also is about getting a person self sufficient again.

    Yes an awful lot of the American right are religiously animated puppets locked up mentally in social issues while their individual liberties are being squashed.

    They “just happen” to be identifying with conservatives today, but they’d identify with any political ideology if it fed their petty jealousies, fears, and hatreds.

    Once upon a time these very same so-called Christians made up what was known as the Southern Democrat. Today the Republican party is infested with these vile frauds.

    Left or right, American politicians would consider it political suicide to not profess belief in some sort of religious fantasy.

    Polarization, when stupidity is taken into account, is understandable. Unfortunately stupidity, for the rest of us Americans, isn’t exactly flattering and being a Republican today is embarrassing all too often.

  4. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    Atheism to Defeat Religion By 2038
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nigel-barber/atheism-to-defeat-religion-by-2038_b_1565108.html

  5. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    Pastor Creflo Dollar denies attacking daughter
    http://cumberlink.com/news/national/pastor-creflo-dollar-denies-attacking-daughter/article_89a44fb5-4ba1-5c12-98c1-a6698c72950e.html

  6. Defiantnonbeliever Says:

    What better way to limit the intellectual growth, atheism/widespread prosperity, while precipitating self-fulfilling prophecy of Armageddon?
    Sinjin- The complication of physical limits to growth and the geometrically progressing environmental collapse don’t look good for atheism if it’s tied to prosperity.

  7. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    Defiant I don’t mind admitting to some optimism, even some enthusiasm, if you would perhaps admit to some pessimism?

    I mean atheism is hardly the aging dinosaur is it?

  8. Defiantnonbeliever Says:

    I have little optimism about human’s chances while they refuse to embrace reality. The lack of gods is so basic to reality that population and complex environmental management for the masses as will be needed, will be harder than teaching chimps calculus. While some cling to capitalist ideas inherently at the expense of all and the future, reality seems very dire. If there is optimism to be found it is in best case, let alone worst case scenarios, scaring the bullshit out of the environmentally blind optimists.

  9. Defiantnonbeliever Says:

    Panzerbjørn- Here in the US ‘conservatives’ seem to think that more help will help the rich work harder at making more and better jobs, while at the same time believing, less help will help the poor work harder. The logic of that formula escapes the opposition.

  10. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    Defiant I think there is some context for the hijacking of capitalism by pro-business forces. The adverse effects of their influence on government is every bit as bad as those influences put upon government from big labor.

    Capitalism is about being pro-market, entrepreneurial, many buyers and many sellers.

    I simply can’t let you have a free pass on denigrating capitalism over what is happeneing today in the US. The US hasn’t been capitalistic in more than 70 years.

    Neo-Facsist Corporatist yes, Capitalist no!

    Today’s markets are dominated by a few large sellers holding back innovation, artificailly propping up prices through limited market competition, and maximizing profits through economies of scale.

    Pro-business and pro-market are inherently different things. Pro-business is about the few, pro-market is about the many.

  11. Defiantnonbeliever Says:

    Sinjin- You don’t get a pass denigrating labor unions that created the middle class, and made American lifestyles worthwhile, 40 hr. week, two week vacations, health care, single income families? As for capitalism not existing for 70 yrs. it wasn’t any better before in previous times when laissez faire was the ogre needing slaying, ‘trickle down’ is just recycled ‘horse and sparrow’ bs that inherently leads to monopoly. Standard oil, JP Morgan, Vanderbilt, and other robber barons ring any bells? Big banks and cannibalistic corporations go back beyond the formation of this country and were battled by it’s founders. Capitalism has almost killed the biosphere if it hasn’t already, call it what you will the damage is done and continues for quarterly profits of a very few over sustainable good for most and any future.

    Panzerbjørn- I forgot to mention that Europe seems to be trying hard to catch up with the polarity and misguided austerity measures that exacerbate economic problems. Yet in some ways northern Europe looks a better place to live than here, I envy it’s social infrastructure and relative lack of religious laws.