25th August 2012

“The entire political effort of the faithful and their self-appointed leaders is to force their god-given moral absolutes on everyone, usually to the disadvantage of vulnerable groups such as women and gays.”

Alistair McBay

9 Responses to “25th August 2012”

  1. R J Says:

    true true true

  2. Kittie Aldakkour Says:

    Why lump women with gays? I don’t feel that disadvantaged or vulnerable.

    Theocratic solutions to government such as sharia law are the new bad guy on the block. A moderate muslim will make a staunch christian look practically agnostic. A fundamental morman makes the Taliban look like a Methodist.

    I just had a fb discussion with my first new earth creationist… he told me that there are people being raised from the dead through prayer in Africa ( as told by his church missionaries) He also told me about a college professor who tried to teach an entire class that evolution was true… until this guy “called him on it” and the professor then confessed, it wasn’t really true, but he was just trying to see how many of them would believe him… I thought I was talking to Glenn Beck.

  3. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    Well Kittie “the lumping” is to say that women have been held to a disadvantage in matters of equal pay for equal work, the right to vote, reproductive right, et cetera.

    Vulnerable because men, despicable men, have used physical force and violence against women in holding them back from enjoying their natural rights.

    Gay people, along with say black people and others ethnic, religious, and political minorities have also been held back from natural rights they have.

    This restriction of personal liberty is an affront to what the United States Constitution and Declaration of Independance stand for.

    There are two oil and water elements that compete for justice and fairness in our society: the will of the individual and the will of communities. This means that we will be endlessly conflicted and we have a responsibility as citizens.

    That responsibility is to come to consensus as rational actors in our courts, our legislative bodies, and in the choices we make in leaders at all levels.

    This brings me to the “new Earth Creationists”. The position as you already know is not one of “rational actor”, we are talking about a person who supports a hypothesis without anything to substantiate it beyond a book written eons ago by ancient nomadic desert people who feared lightening, eclipses, and other ordinary natural phenomena.

    This same person will discount, discredit, and disavow the “theory” of evolution which has evidence both physical, that anyone can see with their own eyes in natural history museums or even just hiking in the forest, and cataloged in scientific research at universities the world over.

    Our new creationist friend equates the god hypothesis with the theory of evolution frequently and incorrectly saying that both are theory, and in so demonstrating his lack of sophistication.

    The very reason theocratic influence in government is bad is systemic. When the governing system is dependent upon illogic, of ancient ideas, ancient knowledge, when the latest understandings are summarily dismissed because they don’t fit an ancient mandate you will have nut bags trying to force idiot religious ideas that women are”chattel” property just like black people. Think Confederate States of America.

    Owners have property rights , property doesn’t. Deny women, gays, blacks, et cetera ownership, becomes the theocratic policy.

    Theocracy is about who owns what, who controls what and whom.

    Imagine a government insisting that the women of its population wear large cotton bags covering their entire bodies in say an area near the equator?

    Imagine a church wedding in a quaint New England town where as part of the wedding vows a woman is required to publicly state she will”obey” her husband and nobody objects? That of course inferior women are expected to OBEY.

    I’m glad you live in relative fairness and feel comfortable taking umbridge in being compared to those disadvantaged gays “you know, them”, but there are lots of women in other places who do feel disadvantaged and vulnerable and might find some comfort in being “lumped” in with those “other” people. You know the gays, and blacks, the Chinese and Muslims.

    The problem with god given absolutes is that it always seems god isn’t sharing the absolutes with everybody. That his propensity to share them with a select group of men is cause for suspicion and doubts about the authenticity of the message. Like maybe women are people? Maybe gay people are gay but they are still people? Same for black people? Maybe all us people should deal with what we can all share?

    Maybe those exalted few, the clergy, due to their minority status as the unique few capable of sharing god’s absolutes should be discriminated against because their malady inhibits the free sharing of information so vital to civil society?

    Turn about, is in this case certainly fair play.

    So be glad to be lumped in, I think it means us rational men need this in order to understand when we should compromise upon our will for the greater good of our communities. This is important if men are ever going to catch up to women on an evolutionary basis.

    Someday maybe, men wont be ego maniacal thugs putting down others, someday men will be as evolved as women.

    When patriarchal theocracy is relegated to the ash heap of history men will have caught up.

  4. The Heretic Says:

    Anyone who thinks that a man is not as evolved as a woman, has never had to work for a woman. But, I digress.

    Not withstanding the savages that are Muslims with their misogynist hateful ways, Western first-world civilizations have made great strides in equalities of most ethnic, gender, and theist groups. These days, the only ones that are victims are the ones who think they are. Very simply, if you act like a victim and think you are a victim, you are a victim. For everyone else, sky is the limit.

  5. Jeff Says:

    Kitty, check the end of yesterday’s for the word picture you requested.

    Heretic, I’ve not only worked for women, but the president of the company that I own one less than half the shares of is a woman, and she’s the one with the extra share (makes us minority owned per the SBA). They really are more evolved than we are, particularly when it comes to conflict resolution. It’s just that in male dominant societies like the west, their methods are overridden by the males around them who don’t understand where they’re trying to go.

  6. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    Jeff I could not agree more.

  7. The Heretic Says:

    You really need to meet my boss.

  8. Kittie Aldakkour Says:

    Sinjin I think I love you. Or your intellect anyway.. I was just thinking of myself and my little world when I read that statment. Being self-liberated from these religious ideas, I don’t feel the confinement that is still there for many women. Thanks for reminding me.

    Jeff – Thank you for the mental picture. I am going to do a little reading on dimensions so I understand more than what I currently do. (which is along the level of 3-d glasses make things poke out at you off the movie screen) I feel very priviledged to be included on this discussion board.

    I am very isolated in my personal life from any kind of discussion like this – it would be a vacation for me to actually get together for dinner, drinks and discussions of this sort. Anyone in the S. Tx area in the future?

  9. Carbon14 Says:

    The Heretic, I agree.

    Sinjin, statisticians have debunked the idea that sexism is a major cause of any wage discrepancies between the genders.

    Jeff, you’ve taken one example of a tactful woman and generalised her strengths over all women. Can you imagine saying the inverse: ‘the president of the company that I own one less than half the shares of is a man, and he’s the one with the extra share (makes us minority owned per the SBA). Men really are more evolved than women are, particularly when it comes to using highly systematised methods of though to uncover and understand the hidden principles that govern complex processes. It’s just that in female dominant sectors like nursing, their methods are overridden by the females around them who don’t understand where they’re trying to go.’

    What does it even mean to say that women are more evolved?