19th September 2012

“In Britain, the Jerry Springer Opera saw a newly rejuvenated Christian fundamentalist movement mobilise the troops and, proving that Muslims don't have the monopoly on violence, death threats were laid at the door of the producers of the show.”

Ian O'Doherty

5 Responses to “19th September 2012”

  1. Panzerbjørn Says:

    In all fairness, here in Europe it is pretty rare that christians resort to outright violence (OK, North Ireland excepted, but that’s kinda different), whereas Muslims will make shit up if they don’t have a genuine reason to get angry and upset…

  2. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    There is no free pass for any religion: They are all factions, all divisive, all aggressive (actively or passively).

    Less outright violence/riotous behavior does not make one religion better. Insidious behaviors like clergy sexual abuse are every bit as awful as throwing rocks into crowds, burning property, and threatening people.

    What is amazing to me is the tolerance people have for this craziness.

    I reject religion outright! I have long ago dismissed it for what it is. I no longer consider any of its possibilities and have relegated it to the dustbin where Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy. and other absurd fantasies go when we mature to adulthood.

  3. Jeff Says:


    See yesterday for a response to your comments of that date.

  4. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    Jeff and everybody,

    Michael Dukakis was asked in a debate about his stance on the death penalty on a very personal level involving his wife Kitty: It was remembered less than favorably, see: http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1844704_1844706_1844712,00.html

    I imagine that under certain circumstances, likely the circumstances we are talking about, a great many people would be able to compartmentalize and not be paralyzed by any cognitive dissonance. I too have a military background so maybe I too have some predispositions?

    As for choices, we yes of course. Chase the dreams first then have kids is the message at my home too. I probably should have prefaced my remarks. I meant only that ultimately I’d have her back and support her decisions, yes I’d try to advise, but in the end I’d just back support her in every way I could.

    I’m of the same view. I might speak on the matter but what I say is sympathetic to the views of women, as in it is ultimately their choice and not mine or any mans.

    That “visceral revulsion” is precisely what drives the anti-abortion position. It is centered on infanticide, not anything in the bible. I don’t think you will find many who aren’t repulsed by a murdered infant but that isn’t what abortion is. Early term abortion isn’t murdering an infant.

    We can say that a baby born at 12 noon is essentially the same baby it was at 11:59AM. Not only must it live after being born but we must feed, clothe, bathe, and care for it to survive. If we fail to care for the newborn it will die surely as it would if it couldn’t breathe.

    So there is a determination between conception and birth where abortion isn’t infanticide and it isn’t at conception or at birth. We don’t need to know anything more to know that the sooner the better.

    Assumptions: My stance on the death penalty could not be further from the popular Republican view or Michael Dukakis’s view.

    The American’s hardly invented popular sovereignty (rooted in 17th and 18th English history) but give them credit for redefining it perhaps as collective sovereignty (composed of the “We the People”/”consent of the governed”)

    As for the death penalty: Rather than a punishment I see it as an expression of mercy. Kittie mentioned cognitive dissonance: What would your life be like if you awoke tomorrow morning to the knowledge that you have murdered and eaten a child? To live in a 6 x 8 cell for the rest of your natural life would be a cruel and inhumane punishment.

    My position is not the same in every situation, but on the matter of death penalty and abortion it is similar. I wouldn’t want later term abortions to be widely performed and with reckless abandon just as I wouldn’t want casual executions for every person convicted of murder.

    Jeffrey Dahmer being the classic example: There was no question of his guilt, he admitted his guilt, he complained of the torture going on within his mind, that he was haunted by demons, and last but not least he asked for the death penalty.

    As to Kant: I also surely don’t reject democracy/majority rule and I don’t see a negative relationship between individual liberty and governance as Kant did. Power to govern is derived from the people yes but as I’ve said before there is a competition between the will of the individual (IS) and the will of the community (PS).

    1) I made an example of a lady who loved pigeons and her neighbors who hated the droppings a little while back. The neighbors won that battle and they should have.

    2) The other side of this would be the story of Jessica Ahlquist in Rhode Island who won out over the community and she should have.

    Two simple examples, where “consent of the governed” both won and lost to the individual, and it was the right thing in both cases.

    An aside: Kant?: In my estimation (for whatever that is worth) Kant was an intellectual authority on a par with today’s William Lane Craig, sure he can muster some quality pseudo-intellectualisms, but at the end of the day he sold irrational notions without grasping the rudiments of rationality.

    Perhaps I have not changed your position, but perhaps you better understand mine?

    My political views rarely fit within the confines of assumption. My views are often found in the “space between” present assumptions. I am after all an atheist Republican and I’ve been called a contrarian.

    Thank you for the posts Jeff and to everybody!

  5. Kittie Aldakkour Says:

    Nice Mr. Dukakis… you didn’t even blink.

    Thanks Sinjin – did you see the link about the reporter covering the pedophile priest beat? It was very interesting how those religious people felt about him…

    William Lane Craig – believes his own lies
    Rick Warren – does not…

    Sam Harris has an interesting article out about free will and crime and accountability. He is almost pushing the edge that I have not adjusted to being there yet. That people really do not have certain kinds of controls who do these horrible things.. .It makes sense, and I understand the things neurobiology is uncovering today will change how we view criminals – I still think they get locked up. Not the pot smokers or the white collar guys… there are worse things for those guys than jail – where everyone wins. But the truly violent and pedophiles – they should not get out until something is fixed in the brain… but we don’t seem to know what that is – or we do, and it is so terrifying to know that we can scan a child’s brain and know what kinds of violent acts they will be predispositioned to – that we refuse to acknowledge that the technology exists… because how would we use it?