19th April 2008

“Concerned about what they see as a rise in the defamation of Islam, leaders of the world's Muslim nations are considering taking legal action against those that slight their religion or its sacred symbols. The Muslim leaders are attempting to demand redress from nations like Denmark, which allowed the publication of cartoons portraying the Prophet Muhammad in 2006 and again last month, to the fury of the Muslim world. Though the legal measures being considered have not been spelled out, the idea pits many Muslims against principles of freedom of speech enshrined in the constitutions of numerous Western governments.”

Rukmini Callimachi

9 Responses to “19th April 2008”

  1. Terence Meaden Says:

    Beware.

    The 1990 declaration by Muslim countries is a horror document when contrasted with the self-evident truly human values so splendidly expressed by the free world’s Universal Declaration of Human rights in 1948. The Muslim version accords with Sharia Law—the utterances of Medieval Islam, as voiced by tribes of the desert. Above all, the repression of women is as absolute as everywhere in Islam (which by the way means submission, not peace).

    Ayatollah Khomeini: “An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humour in Islam. There is no fun in Islam.”

  2. Chris Says:

    The ‘ole Ayatollah’s stand up act must be a really uncomfortable experience. He forgot to add “There is no beer in Islam.” Damn – he just lost my vote. “There is no voting in Islam.” Um…ok. If I had a dog I’d name him Mohammad.

  3. Tzuriel Says:

    Islam does mean peace. Call it what you want. Also, subjugation of women is not an absolute of Islam. IN FREE COUNTRIES where Islam is practiced, the woman choose their religion, and so choose the practices that go with it, as do the men. It does become subjugation, however, when the religion is forced. That is an absolute.

    That’s sad what the Ayatollah said. Islam used to be a place of learning and good. Too bad it fell apart. A religion, like a government, must be adaptable. Which means, really, that the members must be in contact with God through more than ancient documents, so that God can tell them what applies in a modern context, and also say what things really mean. At least that’s what I think. As to whether there is such a religion…I’ll leave that up to individuals.

    Oh, Chris. You should know that there are no dogs in Islam, too. Sorry. 😉

  4. Terence Meaden Says:

    Let’s put it this way—as from a Muslim web site http://www.barghouti.com :

    The Meaning of ‘Islam’

    ‘Islam’ is derived from the Arabic root “Salema”: peace, purity, submission and obedience.

    In the religious sense, Islam means submission to the will of God and obedience to His law.

  5. Tzuriel Says:

    It’s really a combination, then, which makes both of us right. Most likely, the meaning would be something like peace and purity found through submission to the will of God and obedience to His law. Though, the question I must ask now is, assuming that God, or Allah, is all-wise and all-good, etc., is this a bad thing? What do you think?

  6. Critic Says:

    I would guess that the peace and purity are suppose come from the submission and obedience. So, become a mindless religious puppet and you will be happy and pure. How nice. That must be the peace people talk about when they, “give their lives to god.” No thanks.

    This is only slightly on-topic. I saw an interview with some of the women from the FLDS compound that was raided by the Texas child welfare department a couple of weeks ago. They sat placidly, stared straight ahead, and talked in deadpan droning voices with no facial expressions. When asked if they thought it was OK for a 14-yr old girl to be in an arranged marriage with a 40-yr old man, they said something along the lines of, “If something like that happened it would be OK because the child and the man were both pure in the eyes of god,” – I’m paraphrasing here, but it’s a great example of the mindless nature of religion – admittedly taken to an extreme.

    I don’t see how anyone could see that interview and not think that religion is an evil force in the world.

  7. Tzuriel Says:

    Critic:

    I agree and disagree. Being raised Mormon, you can understand my animosity towards the FLDS and other such groups. That aside, though, I agree that watching something like that would tell you that that religion is evil. But not all religions.

    As for Islam, yeah that would be it. But I don’t think that makes you mindless. Here’s a thought: in my religious upbringing, I was taught that very often God would let you decide for yourself. In fact, this is a major thing with Mormonism. If you want help from God, you need to first really investigate the matter yourself. If, for instance, your thinking about moving, but want to know how to go about it, you would need to do your research yourself. It’s actually when you’ve made a decision that you check with God to see if it’s right. Now, I can see where you all would have problems with this, but it emphasizes my point: religion is not necessarily against personal decision. They ask you to choose for yourself and go from there. And only ask God in major decisions: don’t pray about whether you should buy wheat or white bread.

    Religion can very easily be mindless, but is not always. A Christian religion that is not hypocritical would promote learning above most everything else, because God wants us to learn and gave us free will to use it. The point is that the submission does not mean doing whatever your pastor asks you to do, though many people interpret it that way. It’s following what God has said and trying to live your life the best you can.

    As to whether that’s right or not, I don’t know. I just thought some clarification was in order.

  8. Critic Says:

    If you want help from God, you need to first really investigate the matter yourself.

    This is excellent and very practical advice since there is no god and there will be no help from god in making your decision. I can see why the naive religious person could be impressed with this advice.

    It’s actually when you’ve made a decision that you check with God to see if it’s right.

    This is a nice little ending to the story – but how do you know what god’s supposed answer is? Do you hear voices? Or, do you just get a feeling that could have been last night’s anchovy pizza fighting back?

    Now, I can see where you all would have problems with this, but it emphasizes my point: religion is not necessarily against personal decision.

    Yes, SERIOUS problems with this. However, I do see why you use this example to stress your point. But, and you knew this was coming, from my view point this is merely some mind game you play with yourself to make you feel all warm and fuzzy – it does not provide any information what so ever and provides no real benefit to the individual – just an extension of religious brain washing into everyday life.

  9. Tzuriel Says:

    Critic:

    Perhaps. I have lived a religious life all this time and I must confess, though I always was a doubter, I have felt the famous “burning of the heart.” Bad food? I think I could differentiate. But I’ll address my thoughts there in a couple paragraphs.

    If there was a God, it is very practical advice. Even if there isn’t, it encourages one to think on one’s own. That’s why I bring it up.

    As I’ve heard it said, the idea is that you get a particular “feeling” that tells you what. I’ve often heard it described as impressions, like something that guides your thougths along a certain path. It’s irrelevant, though. If there is no God, it’s nothing. If there is one, it’s communication with Him. It all revolves around that single crutch.

    I does provide a benefit. I can gather from your posts that you’ve never been religious, so I can only say that there’s things with the religious you don’t and possibly can’t understand. Mind games? Perhaps. But it does help people. It renews them.

    Now, my thoughts on the fuzzy feeling. If God’s real, then it’s obvious what that is. If not, and this is something I’ve considered a lot because I have felt this feeling, then the only thing I can come up with is it’s a feeling you get when you touch the conviction you feel inside, when you get an idea of how powerful, and, for some, meaningful, that conviction is. It certainly isn’t bad pizza. But that’s the only explanation I’ve come up with so far. Granted, I’m not a genius, so maybe there’s a better explanation I haven’t found yet.