23rd October 2008

“Becoming an atheist gave me the peace I was searching for. I don't see any reason to go back to the confusion and guilt and condemnation of Christianity just because of some mythical promised 'salvation'. If god really is love, then why would he require me to abase myself to him in order to avoid an eternity of torment? That sounds like an argument based on fear rather than reason and love.”

Anon.

30 Responses to “23rd October 2008”

  1. Tony Pro Says:

    Becoming an atheist is a long story for me.
    I’ll just say, I’ll never forget how clear my thinking became. I was in my late twenties and my brain was reorganizing every thought. I remember all my beliefs were someway linked to religous dogmas. At first there was many restructurings a day, later many a week, then a few a month. I’m guessing it took 2-3 yrs before I was transformed.
    I’ve always thought of myself as a scientist since then. Science works. No more confusion, we as scientists are here to answer all the theists questions for them. No more fear (which is almost synonymous with ignorance), we understand and that eliminates the fear.
    As far as peace goes, yes, I do feel a peace of mind, having rectified my ancestors teachings.
    And having found what I was always looking for…truth.

  2. The Atheist Advocate Says:

    And the truth shall set you free…

  3. Critic Says:

    This is a great quote – that Anon person sure was smart!

    I agree about the peace of mind that atheism, specifically monism, provides. No more concerns about trying to understand the mysterious, conscious powers controlling your fate – just the reality of this life, no other life, and the freedom to pursue happiness on your own terms.

    Gods were not created to provide happiness and joy for the faithful, they were created to provide a controlling force for the powerful to oppress the weak.

  4. Baron von Knifty Says:

    Me! I believe in ME! Not the church, not fairy tales, not delusion! Iโ€™m the one in charge of my life because I pay the bills and I pay the consequences of my mistakes. Itโ€™s ME! God dammit, itโ€™s ME!

  5. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    There is far more to Christianity than “confusion and guilt and condemnation,” “some mythical promised ‘salvation’,” and “an eternity of torment.”

    In any case, I agree with Tony Pro: “Science works.”

    And I can also agree, almost completely, with Critic that gods are used (not necessarily created) by whatever powers that be to “provide a controlling force for the powerful to oppress the weak.”

    In the end, and as a theist, I have no problem with atheism and atheists (other than disagreeing at times with what I see as their often limited and charicatured view of religion and believers; also a problem with many theists towards atheism). Atheism is obviously an honest and legitamite
    view of “life, the universe, and everything.”

  6. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    Baron von Knifty:

    It is not always or even mostly only “ME” that must “pay for the consequences of my mistakes.”

  7. Critic Says:

    …gods are used (not necessarily created)…

    Let me rephrase that to state, religions are created by whatever powers that be to provide a controlling force for the powerful to oppress the weak.

    And, in the course of creating our many religions, if a new god or a new aspect of god is necessary, we humans are obviously up to the task of creating the supernatural necessities required to round out our religious doctrine.

    Which is all well and good as long as these creations stay in the sandbox – problem is that these ideas get into the wild and infect culture to the general detriment of humankind.

  8. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    Critic, thanks for the rephrase . . .

    Have you (pl.) seen this?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/21/religion-advertising

    I am a computer idiot and do not quite get how to create the actual link!
    Sorry!

  9. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    Holy sh**t . . . – computer idiot indeed . . .

  10. The Atheist Advocate Says:

    Ox,
    I didn’t get your response for the post I sent on the 21st.
    Any thoughts on the Queen Mary of mistakes?

  11. The Atheist Advocate Says:

    It also occurred to me that you seem to be the only theist in the group, yet you are the only one using profanity. Is that your normal vernacular, do you speak that way with fellow adherents, or are you simply at a lack when it comes to adjectives?
    ๐Ÿ™‚

  12. Critic Says:

    That is a great advert – the perfect slogan.

    “There probably is no god. Now, stop worrying and enjoy your life.”

    I realize that that campaign is directed to theists, but I think it would also be good advice for atheists – except for the religious right. The godbots are out there daily trying to inflict their particular brand of stupidity on humanity: e.g., Proposition 8 in CA that would change the state constitution to limit the rights of homosexuals – big support by the religious right including tons of cash from the Mormon church.

    I can’t even imagine the hatred that the supporters of Prop 8 must feel toward their fellow humans.

    So, I would love to stop worrying about it – problem is, the godbots are out there scurrying around creating evil and, being adverse to self delusion, I cannot stop worrying about it.

    And, if you live in the US and believe in the separation of church and state, you better not vote for McStain. He will surely put in a conservative judge in the SCOTUS and that will destroy the fragile wall erected by Mr. Jefferson.

  13. The Atheist Advocate Says:

    I have pondered the notion for a while now and I have decided to agree with Critic on this one. Gods WERE created by men. By definition, “to cause to exist” would be correct. Men caused gods to exist to serve many purposes. Power over the masses, greed, control soldiers during war, etc…

    I believe the latest creation of man was the FSM (pesto be upon him)! Believe it or not, he is doing very well since his creation!
    He can be found here http://www.venganza.org

    The FSM (pesto be upon him) was created to mock the religious right and the superstitions that accompany it, but has taken off as a grass roots organization that may soon receive their tax exempt status. Can’t be any worse than scientology!! Imagine, every Friday off for a religious holiday! Wear pirates clothing on the holy day and eat pasta! Kewl, count me in! Where’s the beer!

    ๐Ÿ™‚

  14. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    The Atheist Advocate,

    Yeah, I swear like a trucker, though I do it less “now” than I did “then.” I try to keep it reined in in mixed company, but old habits die hard, even in print. If it expresses how one feels, well, why not? Sorry if it offends you, and if so, I will try to refrain.

    I have not responded to your post on the 21st because you stated that you think that the Bible ought not to need interpretation. Since I believe the opposite – not just about the Bible, but any written work from Moby Dick to todays AQOTD – it seemed a somewhat pointless coversation to begin, given the space it would take up, at least on my end (why, when, where, what, how, etc…). No offense intended here, you are welcome to your opinion . . .

    I do not frequent the AQOTD in order to “convert” anyone to my religion and/or theism, my opinions about the Bible, or any other theological stance or practice. I participate because I find the comments often interesting and thought provoking (whether or not I agree/disagree with the particular quote involved), I wish to understand the atheist position(s) on Life, the Universe, and Everything, and because, as a theist, I believe there is plenty of room here on God’s green earth for atheist, deist, theist, and agnostic alike.

    I would also have to say that there is NOT a whole lot of room for theists of the fundamentalist/literalist/biblical-inerrancy variety, or, more acurrately, they seem to believe there is no room for the rest of us. Many atheists also seem to be “biblical-literalists” (but not fundamentalists/inerrants), but there is a difference: biblical-literalism of the atheist variety does not generally result in religions/denominations/sects/theologies/whatever that preach/teach/celebrate/pray for/hope for the eventual destruction and eternal damnation and torture of those who do not believe as they do.

    Anyway . . . hope that all makes sense and answers your questions.

  15. The Atheist Advocate Says:

    ๐Ÿ™‚ I am very comfortable with my thought process, so I don’t get offended unless someone outright disrespects me solely for the purpose of irritating me. The profanity question was merely a curiosity, such as you are curious about atheists.

    I would like you to tell me how you suspect the error I pointed out occurred.
    I have repeated the verses here:

    Compare the text from 2 Kings 18 with Isaiah 37. These books were written by two different authors. Both Kings books were written by Jeremiah between 562 and 538 B.C. while Isaiah was written by (you guessed it) Isaiah between 701 and 681 B.C. I would love to hear your comments on that one.

    I appreciate your banter! Cheers!

  16. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    Critic,

    Thought you might like that – I kinda like it too. One could change the first part of it and still have an interesting slogan:

    “โ€œThere probably is a god. Now, stop worrying and enjoy your life.โ€

    Of course, that would be more deist/agnostic than particularly theist. And for the fundamentalist/literalist/biblical-inerrant?

    “There is only MY GOD. Believe in HIM or burn forever.”

  17. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    The Atheist Advocate,

    I will look it up and get back to you. Wednesday nights are when one of my groups take place, so I’ve been rather busy the last couple of days preping, etc…, and I am off in a few minutes to an evening out with friends. Expect a post on the Kings-Isaiah question on tomorrow’s AQOTD.

    And CHEERS! right back at you!

  18. Tony Pro Says:

    I agree with that selfish bastard Baron von Knifty,
    Selfishness gets a bad rap.
    It is about me.
    I’m no good to my kids, if I can’t feed them.
    My better half doesn’t need me ill all the time, so I must take care of myself.
    Most every decision I make can be considered in some way selfish.
    I can give to a charity anonymously in hopes that later it leaks out and I’m nominated for atheisthood. Ha.
    Mother Teresa lived a pretty good life that could be considered selfish if what she wanted out of life was notariety, and sainthood.

  19. Tony Pro Says:

    Atheist Advocate,
    I hold no disdain for cussing.
    When I want to show emphatisism, I may say “I feel strongly about”.
    When I want to show vehemence, I may say “I’m emphatic about”
    When I want to show I feel strongly, I MAY CAPITALIZE.
    We’re all just trying to communicate here. Others may not know what some terms mean but I’ve yet to meet anyone younger then 10 that doesn’t know that fuck, shit, damn, etc. is a great way to show anger and frustration.
    May I suggest “The Anatomy of Swearing”, A. Montagu.
    I’ll know when someone is ignorant by what they’ve said long before I judge them on how they’ve said it.

  20. noigiler Says:

    Baron V K and all,
    Sorry.
    Don’t take me the wrong way, I was commenting on BVK’s comment with humor to start. “Selfish bastard” may not be as accepted internationally as it is locally.

  21. Tony Pro Says:

    noigiler,?!
    Whoops that me

  22. Critic Says:

    So, hard to keep all those aliases in order I see……

  23. Tony Pro Says:

    yes, 1st time I logged on to this site I chose a log-in name (noigiler), you have to Log-in if you want to suggest a quote as I did tonight, then went back and posted again. Whoops.
    PS. I have about 30 for all the sites I post on.

  24. Tony Pro Says:

    The quote I suggested:
    When searching for proof of an afterlife, why does anybody go further than exhumation?

  25. Critic Says:

    why does anybody go further than exhumation?

    Well, there is that whole soul thing you know…..

  26. Tony Pro Says:

    Really!?
    Where is it?

  27. Tony Pro Says:

    Oh, there it is.

  28. Tony Pro Says:

    I believe in the song, “Soul man” by the Blues Bros.

  29. Tony Pro Says:

    Christ, am I babbling tonight!

  30. Tony Pro Says:

    Ok, time to get serious again. On to———————————————————————————————->>>>>>>>tomorrow.