12th December 2008

“Atheists have been among the most abused parties in the history of the church.”

Richard Newton

15 Responses to “12th December 2008”

  1. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    Pretty much everybody, including other Christians, have been among the most abused parties in the history of the church. And very many of these abused parties were punished/tortured/killed for being or thinking something that they weren’t and didn’t. Same goes for all the “world religions.”

  2. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    And that is putting it lightly, the understatement of understatements.

  3. AtheistAdvocate Says:

    Hi Ox,
    You had to come back for seconds on that one huh? Must have hit a nerve.
    I agree with you that many peoples have been abused by religion. The working class pay through the nose to keep churches alive and well. Murders of innocents, child abuse and oppression to name a few. However, I also agree with Richard, Atheists have received the worst of it. I still get persecuted when folks here in North Carolina find out I’m godless. I have lost people I thought were friends when they found out. Seems it’s OK to have a different faith, as long as you have one, but to be an atheist in the bible belt is to be alone. That is why I have my own web-site and visit atheist forums. There is comfort in knowing that there are other intellects in this world. People who like to think and decide and prove the facts. Life is good! You only get this one, so live it well.

    Cheers and Happy Winter Solstice to everyone!

  4. Chris Says:

    So, people we know and like from my kid’s school find out we’re heathens and suddenly their kid can’t play with ours any more and there’s no more talk of comin over for a glass of vino. And these people are “Cath-light”! I think I have a pretty good idea what otherwise kind and accepting people are being taught that makes them behave this way toward their fellow man. I shudder to think what danger me and mine would face in a modern Muslim country. Religion: Creating bigots for 10,000 years.

  5. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    Don’t have much more to say on this one. Ya’ll are a-ok in my book (Quite a few of you godless folk up here in the Great Northwest! Nice people – with one or two exceptions!!).

    Hit a nerve? Facts is facts, baby!

    I know you don’t agree with the sentiment, but hey, “heaven and earth” are for everyone or they’re for no one.

    And a Happy Winter Solstice right back at ya!

  6. Tony Pro Says:

    This quotes too easy, if there’s an opposite to religion, it’s us–no religion.
    Of course we will be maligned until we sell the truth to them. That’s why we must speak out.

    I pretty much agree with all.
    Chris, like that qoute: “creating bigots for 10,000 years”.

    Some dyslexia, or over enthusiasm going on with the solstice cheers.
    It’s the 21st, not the 12th.
    Ironically, it could well be that when we started to grow a brain, one of our 1st studies was in the heavens or stars. Astrology and the discovery of the solstices may have jump started this belief in the supernatural.

  7. Tony Pro Says:

    Was thinking later… Is that reference to the winter solstice brought up because it’s a quasi-holiday that can be proven? Our holiday that we can celebrate around Xmas of scientific fact that makes sense? If so, it went right over my head, but I like it!

  8. Chris Says:

    The only reason Christmas is when it is is that the early church was actively co opting the religious celebrations of the heathens. Oh! They celebrate the winter solstice? That just happens to be the birthday of our lord! They arbitrarily placed it there on the calendar. Same for Easter, an event that strangely follows the lunar calendar. Not so strange when you consider that it “happens” to coincide with the festival dedicated to the pagan fertility goddess Eoster. How blatant! How fraudulent! How entirely consistent with a cynical young religion planting it’s flag all over others practices.

  9. Chris Says:

    And since it’s the season, I’ll point out yet again – there is no non-biblical account of this person ever having lived during a time when there were many working historians writing down all kinds of far less important minutia. Not only is there no god, there was no Jesus.

  10. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    Well, Chris, though I can’t prove it (!!!), I think there was a “Jesus of Nazareth.” There were indeed historians of the time (say, 80 to 100 years after the fact) who at least seem to have heard of him, and considered that info as more or less so much “less important minutia,” and important only insofar as it related to their larger purposes (quite different from the purposes of modern historians). Now, whether or not he was the Son of God, God Incarnate, etc… – well, that is entirely debatable, even among Christians. Not that I’m trying to “convert” you or anything!

    And you are entirely right concerning the celebration of Christmas. But so what? All cultures build their beliefs and celebrations “arbitrarily” on the backs of those that came before. Nothing particularly inhuman or wrong about that. Call it evolution (no sense of “progress” implied; see Tony Pro’s comment)!

    In any case, I am more than happy to “celebrate” the coming Winter Solstice along with any who care to toast the inevitable turning of the seasons, regardless of whether or not we attach “ultimate meaning” to it or not!


  11. The Atheist Advocate Says:

    I say “Happy Winter Solstice” to reiterate the “Reason for the Season”! The REAL reason for the season!!!

    Their are many theists who shout “It’s not happy holidays, it’s Merry Christmas! The reason for the season!” (and they don’t wait until christmas to say it). When in fact, they are wrong, and don’t care about being politically correct.

    Winter Solstice this year will happen on December 21st at 7:04am and is the true reason for the season. Christians ‘covered’ this with their “flag” as Chris pointed out. I am not a Pagan per se, but I really enjoy the festivities. I give gifts, I have a decorated tree, I hang mistletoe, and I eat turkey and ham with all the fixins’ including sweet-potato pie! I even send “Winter Solstice” cards to my friends and family.

    Since the theists are saying “Merry Christmas” anywhere from Thanksgiving through New Year, I will say “Happy Winter Solstice” as many times as I can. I can only hope someone asks me why!!!
    I really do enjoy explaining it to them!


  12. Tony Pro Says:

    Wowee, wow wow wow!
    I’m ecstatic! I had no idea. As I said the other day, you need to snare every opportunity to direct conversation towards our goal.
    I can’t wait to get some of those cards, and no more “Merry Xmas” for me!
    I eagerly await the anticipated eye-rolling sure to follow my new holiday greeting!
    It’s going to be a wonderful time!!!


    now let’s see… cards, new texts and emails, new astonomical ornaments, …lawn decorations 🙂

  13. The Atheist Advocate Says:

    Now I feel like Dr. Frankenstein!
    I have created a monster!

    lol 😉

    Lawn decorations, huh? Hmmmm! That has merit!

  14. Chris Says:

    Everyone with a “Christmas Tree” has a pagan symbol right there is their living room. Aside from forcing themselves to listen to a man is a dress drone on about a long dead prophet from a town that wasn’t yet founded at the time of his supposed birth, there is very little about most people’s observance that is overtly “Christian”. That’s why I really have no problem with it. All the best parts, the feast, the family, the gifts, the decor, mistletoe, yule logs, trees, wreaths are all pagan. I simply chose not to go hear a be-dressed pedophile.

    “Solsticemas” anyone?

  15. Terence Meaden Says:

    Yes, I could go along with solsticemass,
    but there is already a word in use by atheists
    —and that is Newtonmass.

    Isaac Newton was born on 25 December.