13th April 2009

“Since there is no supportable evidence to validate it, the statement 'Jesus rose' is necessarily a lie. A Christian claiming this knows he or she has nothing to back up the claim, and therefore is consciously speaking falsehood, pretending to know something to be true that they do not.”


7 Responses to “13th April 2009”

  1. Bob Says:

    This should come as no surprise. The church has condoned & encouraged lies for thousands of years.

    “What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church … a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them.”
    – Martin Luther

  2. John Sutton Says:

    That Jesus rose is not a lie though contemporary christians do not believe he rose in the crude, childish way atheists say. He rose in a very real, non metaphorical, spiritual sense that is so deep in meaning that we simple atheists cannot grasp the true meaning of it. He rose in a way that is complete bolix to any rational person, but at the same time he rose in a way that will fool the gullible into thinking that a bishop is talking sense.

  3. holysmokes Says:

    Anything will rise ….if you add enough yeast.

  4. Larry Huffman Says:

    I disagree with the logic behind this quote, I think. I am not willing to say that christians are all ‘consciously speaking falsehood, pretending to know something to be true that they do not’.

    To begin with…I think for someone to be considered a liar, they hav to know they are speaking falsehood…and I do not think that is the case. In fact, to say they cannot back it up is somewhat erroneous. Better to say that what they back it up with is unreasonable.

    Christians believe this based on faith, and while faith is defined as the absence of reason…and is surely the enemy of rationale discourse when it comes to theology…it is something very real to the believer.

    So, they are not lying, they have been deluded…from the time they were young in most cases…to believe something based on faith…and they have been taught to accept faith as something real.

    I know it is splitting hairs, but I do not think calling christians liars for what they believe is accurate or beneficial to anyone. As a former believer…faith is something of an enigma. There is nothing in my life…not one thing I can think of…that I have ever accepted as real as strongly as I accepted my faith, and yet now I completely disregard religious faith as nothing more than a tool to trick people into believing.

    At some point a bunch of lies went into christianity. Most likely at numerous points along the timeline. But saying that all who believe the premise that Jesus was resurrected are lying is not accurate. They believe it fully…and so they are not lying. Deluded, yes. Misled, yes. Irrational, absolutely. Liars…no, I do not think so. Mistaken fits better.

  5. John Sutton Says:

    Larry – they are lying if what they claim is untrue. They may be unintentionally lying but liars they are. That lie is forgivable but telling children that they know something for certain implies that they have reliable evidence. It is this claim to know what they cannot know that is the worst of their lies.

  6. Dan the Man Says:

    “Unintentionally lying” is an ox AND a moron. I’m with Larry, except that I don’t think it’s splitting hairs. That the teller KNOWS it’s untrue makes a huge difference.
    One of my pet peeves is the application of the term “LIE” to something that is just mistaken or wrong. The “claim to know what they cannot know” is still stretching it to call it a lie, especially if they *think* they are certain, which is likely. I don’t think they can know it, but they think it’s knowable because they already know.
    Question a person’s beliefs is one thing, but questioning sincerity in another person’s beliefs is absurd.
    If anybody has ever been on the other end of “I don’t think you really believe that” hopefully knows where I’m coming from.

  7. AtheistAdvocate Says:

    That’s a big amen Dan.
    They are not lying because they honestly believe it to be the truth. To them, it IS the truth.
    That has always been the dividing line… One’s perspective of truth.

    As an atheist, I can’t know that what I think is absolutely true, I just see a lack of evidence for accepting their truth. So… I don’t believe!