27th December 2009

“There are two laws on abortion rights being applied in the States. The first is based on the Supreme Court handing down the Roe v. Wade decision in 1973, which gave women the right to choose to have an abortion. The second law is followed by those who think that God speaks to them, and demands that they oppose by any means possible, women's abortion rights. Nothing you can say to the second group will change their mind. But fortunately for women, the real law says they can choose to have an abortion.”

Anon.

9 Responses to “27th December 2009”

  1. Greg Says:

    As much as I dislike the thought of abortion, I hate – even more – the thought of someone else telling a woman what she can do with her body.

  2. Dan Says:

    I support a woman’s choice, but abortion is still a very sad thing. I do think that the message should be a strong one trying to encourage women to choose life, while enhancing access to counseling and adoption services as they’re needed.

    What is so horrible about the pro-life crowd is that while they try to reduce the number of abortions (laudable if phrased in that way), they do nothing whatsoever to tackle the root of the problem: unwanted pregnancy. In fact statistics show that they make it worse with their abstinence-only stupidity, leaving many women unprepared to understand their own biology. And these pro-life idiots vilify the groups trying the hardest to reduce unwanted pregnancy.

    So yeah, you simply cannot have a rational conversation with a pro-lifer.

  3. Holysmokes Says:

    I think the best place to place a rubber, is on the lips of the clergy.

  4. Holysmokes Says:

    Hi Solomon, I guess you have missed my point. You seem to be astonished by the way your Quran was written. You somehow feel that because it was written in a certain way, it must be the work of a god. I must confess that I am bit surprised at how easily you are impressed. You have asked me to show you other old writings that are written in this way and which are as truthful. Not to insult you, but must confess I find this comment ridiculous. How many virgins are you assigned after death? How has this been proven? Has anyone on the planet ever come back to life and tell us what life-after-death is like? No. Please do not tell me your book is truthful. More importantly, please do not tell me it has been proven. Do yourself a favor and look up the word “proven.” The simple fact is, nothing is ever “proven.” Not in literature and not even in science. The goal is to find as much evidence as possible to arrive at logical conclusions. Even the law of gravity is not “proven.” We believe it is correct, only because there has never been a known instance of it ever being wrong.

    You asked me if I am a man of truth. Yes, however I am also a man looking for the truth, however never without evidence to support it. I have asked you to supply your evidence, yet you ignore my request.

    I must also say that I find your attitude towards Hindus more than a little disgusting. Quote “Hindus are just a group of people more stupid than one can imagine.” End quote. That’ a bit rude. They have their beliefs and you have yours. You don’t have anymore evidence to support your belief than they do. I am not asking you to agree with them, I am however, asking you to tolerate their way of looking at things. I too find such beliefs silly, but I find yours to be equally so, without evidence. Instead of supplying any, you accuse me of calling potential evidence sorcery, but yet I have not. How open-minded of you. For the record, any evidence you bring forth, will need to be repeatable within the bounds of science. Taking the word of ancient text is foolish by any standards. If your book makes a claim, let it be testable. I would ask the same of any scientist, clergy, politician or layperson.

    Let me ask you a global question Solomon. If you happen to be born in Israel, what religion are you likely to become? If you are born in other parts of the middle east, what religion are you likely to become? If you are born in the West, what religion? If you are born in Japan? What about China? I think you know the general answers to these questions. People typically become whatever religion they are born into. Yes there are exceptions, however I think you get my point. Now let us look at this from the outside and inspect the odds. If 1000 people are born in Afghanistan, the likelihood of them becoming anything other than Muslim are slim. Would you agree? What force is causing this? The same can be said for other religions around the world. The PRIMARY cause of individuals getting into specific faiths, has nothing to do with the validity of said faith. It is obvious. Fore example, the odds of those 900 Afghans becoming Buddhists are virtually non-existent. This alone should show you that religions are silly. Humans are gullible. It’s one of our many faults. The trick is to get beyond that with logic and common sense.

    Before I forget, I have a friendly suggestion. I am guessing that English is not your first language. It is customary to place a, “space” behind the period in each sentence. It is also proper to place a commas in a sentence where a slight pause is needed to make the sentence flow easier. It also helps if you make individual paragraphs for separate topics of discussion. While I am certainly no expert, (and make my share of grammatical errors), I can tell you that these simple suggestions will make your thoughts easier to understand by the rest of us. On a positive note, your spelling is quite good.

    I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. You have no evidence and I require it. It is that simple. The human mind is a funny thing. There have literally been tens of thousands of gods created by man, but to my knowledge, not one has ever produced a shred of evidence. Each time something happened in the natural world that man could not explain, he assigned a god or gods to it. Unfortunately a few of those gods are still hanging around. Hopefully as knowledge about the universe increase, science will cure that.

    By the way, I’ll assume that you have only one god, and that you are convinced that all others are false. If so, that makes you an atheist 99.999 percent of the time. Please give that a little rational thought. All major faiths have their ancient writings. All can justify in their minds why theirs is the correct path. Yet they foolishly believe without evidence. It doesn’t say much for the human race now does it?

  5. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    I second you, Dan. I also agree with former President Clinton when he said “Abortion should be legal and rare”. The problem is, as you point out, the religious are absolutely counter productive in their approach to the fact that we tend to be reproductive. They oppose sexual education in the schools, oppose contraception, insist that abstinence only education is viable as an approach and then get all up in arms about the number of abortions there are. Of course there continue to be unwanted pregnancies when you make a central aim of your policies lying to teenagers about the basic mechanics of reproduction! And having done so, you now want to force poor unwed women (by and large) to have babies they have no hope of supporting. How very Christian of you.

    The countries with the lowest rates of abortion and unwanted pregnancies are those with the most comprehensive sexual education and also happen to be the least religious.

    If they really cared, they’d support proper sexual education.

  6. John Says:

    Oh Captain, for you may have hit it right on the head. Ever notice the babies being un-wontedly born? Most are eagerly adaptable by rich christian couples. Almost like the more available the unwanted babies the better odds of securing an adaption by a “christian, loving couple” … gage, gage…

  7. John Says:

    Solomon:

    You must be fishing for converts as you always seem to be spreading to glories that you believe are islam. As I see it, most on this site seem for the most part to be converts from and not reverts back to the very cults that most escaped from. ‘Least that’s what I have reasoned to be the case or I would have moved on, already.

    Or is it that you also having any doubts, sir? I say sir as I understand that all spreaders of islam appear to me, to be males and not females. Why is it that for some reason men in power in both islam and christianity appear very frightened of loosing their power to woman or even to people that might be slightly different than themselves? Is that why men appear to always forcibly resent anyone’s challenge to their authoritarian authority?

    Dude, these are just words written down by a human being…

    As a male Atheistic/Humanist, I welcome you to the group of free thinkers and welcomed any trustworthy, ahimsa and non-demeaning discussion for the betterment and the future of the human species.

  8. solomon Says:

    Dear Holysmokes,

    First of all I would like to thank you for the advice/comments regarding my English form of writing. During expressing my ideas I could have missed out the correct form, assuming it have no significant impact on the viewers understanding. My interest is more focus on what I’am going to point out. Anyway I will try to improve it in future comments.

    I don’t miss a point. “How many virgins are you assigned after death?” I should not have answer this question coz you are just making fun of it. But for the sake of truth & knowledge I’am willing to do so. In his commentary on Surah 55:72, Ibn Kathir (d. 1373 CE) stated: “The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: ‘The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana’a [Yemen]’.” So its very clear there are 72 virgins assigned for one after death.
    Now what sort of evidence do you want from god. Do you expect god to show his face from the sky and say “Hey people, I am god”., so that human can carved his image & idolized it? And later they can tarnish his image by creating some funny caricature? God is smart enough to let that happen. God even does not allow artist or sculpturer ever came across in their minds to draw or carved Mohammads image during his time. If not the disbelievers might have stepped or smash his image or sculptures.

    Its absurd to think the atheist cannot see the evidence of gods existence around them. Its just that they refuse to admit. Its their hearts that have been blinded. Does’nt you ever wonder who could have built the skycrapers or the flyovers. They painstakingly design what form or shape it has to be, what sort of building materials to use, what method of construction to adopt and many other scientific or technological activity involve in its construction. Now look at the tree in front of you. How come it is being constructed without visible hands. How come its design is in equilibrium, intelligently structured to overcome the pull of gravity. With various shapes of leaves and with various colors. Now who determines all that. If you said its evolution, then you would be some misguided fool. That bloody simple word can create those incredible magnificent creation? And don’t even try to say its just pure science, the roots of the tree gets its food from the earth stuffs. Before you said all that who determines the system is to be that way. How do the trees know they have to get nutrients from the earth to grow. Even if god speeded the growth of the tree, let say it grows to full size at a fraction of a second or at the blink of the eyelid. Suddenly a seed appear to be a fully grown tree instantly in front of you. You will not then say “Wow this is gods work”. You will again say this is pure sorcery. Does that show evidence that you simply deny? Knowledge by god have come to human telling everything is created by him, including the hands & brains that construct the scycrapers or the flyovers. What about the existence of other heavenly bodies. Now what more evidence are you trying to figure out?

    You said you find my comment ridiculous, in what way you find it to be so. Or are you trying to get away from the question I impose on you earlier. Well as for your friend the Hindus I’am not trying to be rude to anybody. Tell me what other words than “stupid” is more appropriate to describe some dude who creates their own god by carving it & then worshipped it. They are just a bunch of liars who try to run away from truth. They are creating other gods rather than worshipping the true god where knowledge have come to them of this true god just to suit their way of thinking or to satisfying to their needs.

    The type of religion most people is likely to become if they are born in a certain place is of no significant at all on their final faith on the true religion. Mohammad & Abraham is born in a circle of community who worshipped the idol. Jesus(the real one who worshipped Allah) was born in a community of Jews. Its up to one to choose their faith after knowledge of the true god have come to them. Most human run away from truth, so its not amazing at all they stick to their forefathers religion. However a few of them seek the truth. Its fortunate that one is born in a circle of a muslim community. But that does not guarantee they will stick to it until their last breath.
    Well I too have a friendly suggestion for you. If you are really seeking for truth as you said it with your tounge (I don’t know whats in your heart) try this exercise. Faith gives you real confidence, sureness & tranquility. Faith comes in when your prayers are answered. When that happens you are very sure that there is god. Try a few prayer Holysmokes. The discipline for prayer is to lower your voice to god. Ask god what you wish. Ask with the fear that he won’t grant you & with the hope that he will. Its up to him to grant it, but if he answer your prayers it’s the most precious gift that he has grant you. That precious gift is faith.

    As for John my comments will come to you later.

  9. solomon Says:

    Dear John,
    Why do I have to revert to some silly freethinking without guidance /knowledge group after I have found solace in the true path.Trustworthy!! Your tounge is not the reflection of your heart. God knew it and god tells it so. Ahimsa, could be considered in some way(Anything brought by disbelievers have to be checked thoroughly). And anything out of the real truth will only bring destruction to the human species.
    You want to know why most on this site seem for the most part to be converts from and not reverts back to the very cults that most escaped from. First they start with the wrong religion( Christian or hindus or Buddhist) surely they could not find the right path or answer, but worst still the Atheist are swayed even further from the wrong religion. They think they are on the right track. They are only playing a guessing game. God knew it and god tells it so.
    Did you look at the animal kingdom. God have given strength, confidence,superiority to the male over the female. How can the weaker sex protect the colony? Worst still how can a gay lion multiply their population & became a strong survivor?(sorry I’am gonna laugh at this). Does that make your thought of ‘men in power in both islam and christianity appear very frightened of loosing their power to woman or even to people that might be slightly different than themselves’ a blind statement?