17th January 2010

“The idea that Jews have a right to 'self determination in their historical birthplace' is open to debate – or should be, without the risk of being labelled an anti-Semite.”


22 Responses to “17th January 2010”

  1. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    FYI: The internet film ‘Zeitgeist’ linked to by Bornagain A. Theist on 1/15 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjGkRFFBd0A) was made by one Peter Joseph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Joseph). A good critique of this film from a skeptical perspective – ‘The Greatest Story Ever Garbled’ by Tim Callahan – can be found at Skeptic Magazine’s site from 2/25/09 (http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-02-25).

    And, once again, I agree with the quote.

  2. Bornagain A. Theist Says:

    Man, this is a true statement if there ever was one. Even before I realized that there were no gods, I wondered what was going on with the Jews. I sympathized that they were singled out during the atrocities of WWII, of course, but I never did figure out why a religious group would have special right to a particular piece of the planet. As it turns out, my wonderings made sense. They do not deserve a special spot.

    I wonder now, as I have for years, why the USA calls this special brand of people their friends – AS A COUNTRY – when there is no reason other than the enormous amount of Jewish citizens in the USA – and that doesn’t give them any special privileges in my book.

    If someone can give me a logical reason to think otherwise, I will try to do so. I feel like I am in the minority, but at this point, I feel justified in my feelings.

  3. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    The truth? If it were not for the presence of oil in them there sands probably nobody but the monotheistic faiths would care much about the Near and Middle East. Nobody in the West anyway. Except maybe as a testing ground for next-generation weapons systems, or maybe a gigantic DMZ. And I agree with BAT: no religious group has a “right” to a particular piece of the planet based on religious belief. A group may have a “claim,” but claims can be disputed and negotiated. And isn’t Israel a touch theocratic? So much for the spread of democracy pushed by the USA. There is nothing logical about what is going on in that part of the world.

  4. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    It would be a bit like giving Catholics a “country” right in the middle of Italy. Oh! Wait…

    I’m not terribly troubled that the U.S. displaced the native people. I’m the beneficiary of that history. And I’m not upset that Jews inhabit Jerusalem. There never was a country of Palestine, just a name on the map. If these two factions could live with each other’s religions, there would be no reason for conflict. Genetically, they are the exact same people.

    I’m not sure what could be accomplished in the debate. The reason that resolution is not forthcoming is that the U.S., as Israel’s benefactor, has been unwilling to apply the pressure necessary to get Israel to negotiate a settlement in good faith. As a pragmatic matter, only a two state solution can be viable.

  5. John Says:

    I understand that in the Utah State Capital the elected officials run almost all of their ideas before the 12 chosen ones and the president for approval before any vote is ever taken on the floor; on legislation for the citizens.

    So much for a foreign church run state; as we have one unopposed in our own backyards.

  6. Joe Pro Says:

    I’m so tired of this crap. Do we really have to put up with every Tom, Dick and Harry’s age old superstitions and ideas??? If the majority of people think that Elvis is still living does that mean I should give a ‘rat’s xss’?

    Open to debate!? Yes – no kidding. Why we should have to waste time on the debate more than once…???

    Probably not the right place for me to rant on this… after all, I’m on a sight dedicated to pointing out the ridiculous ascertations of religious thought in general.

  7. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    Why the Solomons of the world are dangerous:

  8. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    Nice post – I always enjoy Michael Shermer.

  9. solomon Says:

    Group A=true believers

    Group Z= Atheists,deist,infidels,unbelievers,hypocrates,declare muslims but agents of satan & unbelievers

    The group A’s are the true god abiding ones sponsoring the religions of peace.The group Z are the ones planning fabricated lies in tarnishing relgion of peace by commiting athrocties,planning worldwide fabricated bombings that they usually highlight in this blog etc. etc.Now the viewers know who are the culprits

  10. Bornagain A. Theist Says:

    I would hate to think that we would exclude “the viewers” from knowing about the worldwide fabricated bombings. Most of them probably thought that the worldwide bombings were real… that real people died for no reason… and that other real people celebrate the deaths with great joy and celebration because the dead were not members of the “correct” religion.

    I’m glad to finally know that these bombings were fabricated and that nobody actually has died.

    In the name of Mithra, amen!

  11. Hypatia Says:

    AFAIK no one has ever blown themselves up shouting “Rational debate is great!”

  12. John Says:

    Cheney and solomon lying in bed “K” “I” “S” “S” “I” “N” “G”… First lie about the truth; justify crimes of killings… then comes a whole truckload of bullshit in a baby carriage! Preety in pink!!

  13. Tony Provenzano Says:

    Lol. Brilliant Hypatia!

    I wonder if Solomon would blow himself up if his God told him to?
    The deeper they go, the more religious some become, and the more dangerous the things they’ll do in the name of their God.
    It’s in their books. If they follow them to the letter, civilization has no chance. We in the west are only lucky that the Christians aren’t as crazy-for-their-God as the Muslims for the moment.
    But history has shown the tide will turn again. Aren’t Christian followers currently burning witches in Africa?
    Sol & Tech claim it is us evil nonbeliever’s who at are at fault.
    Have they watched the video’s, or seen the people doing this? The people doing the killing aren’t evil; they truly believe they are doing what is right. Why? Because they are misguided by Exodus 22:18 “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live”, and driven by fear which is driven by ignorance.

  14. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    As a believer, I’ll take my chances with ‘group z.’

    “Rational debate is great!” LOL!

  15. Bornagain A. Theist Says:

    Ya’ know, Tony, I’m think I’m going to try harder to remember your last sentence. It’s a jewel and I have to respect it, even though I tend to be a bit wild-eyed in my atheistic exuberance.

    They really don’t know what they are doing, any more than the religious world in general – driven by fear which is driven by ignorance. I’ve been there; fearful and ignorant – but now I strive to be otherwise.

    I quote for reference: “The people doing the killing aren’t evil; they truly believe they are doing what is right. Why? Because they are misguided by Exodus 22:18 “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live”, and driven by fear which is driven by ignorance.”

    That is downright salty…


  16. solomon Says:

    Your lifespan /(divided by)endless time=close to nothing

    How can in such a very(x 10^infinity) brief period one could explain the wondrous of things without divine knowledge.

    Don’t mention science.

  17. solomon Says:

    Dear Oxymoronic Christhinker,

    You have chosen Hell by joining group Z and theres no 2nd. chance to turn back.

  18. Holysmokes Says:


    Please point me in the direction of the Z croud. They will be the logical choice because they can think for themselves. I’m glad to see from your postings that you will be joining us. It’s a shame that you don’t yet realize it. Can you cook? The heat will be supplied for you.

  19. Bornagain A. Theist Says:

    Let’s clear this up. There are many of us here who would “repeat after me” say, “I deny the holy spirit!” I absolutely do make such a denial, and accept the consequences of my decision without regret (for I am certain that there are none!)

    That seals our biblical fate, so no further admonitions are needed. There are others, Oxy and Holysmokes in mind, who may not be willing to make that statement/commitment at this particular time. Fine! But the deal is we are talking about folks who are willing to give it their best shot at understanding truth regardless of whether it was their initial belief or not.

    Let me be more clear: I choose hell (since it is imaginary). What I will actually get is quite simple: death!

    “Ain’t Skeered!”


  20. solomon Says:

    Dear Bornagain A. Theist,

    Wait a minute…it will not be that simple…..yet. Death is not the end of it. You will be raised back to life after death. You will be questioned, interrogated what you did in life on earth. That will be the hardest time of your life if you had known.Regret is of no benefit during that time. See how your ill heart deceive you in accepting truth.

  21. solomon Says:

    Dear Holysmokes,

    Yeah…The Z crowds are what they think a logical choice because they can think for themselves & they are also the ones who have been shutting their hearts to wonder truth.The group A have nothing to do with the plights of group Z.Let me show you the direction to the Z crowd. Just follow in line with the Z lots lead by your masters Darwin & Dawkins march straight to hell.You will all be cooked ‘well done’.

  22. John Says:

    I’ll bring the marshmallows!!!