26th January 2010

“Religion is like a huge dog. When it's yours it feels comforting and safe, but it scares the hell out of everyone else and the least you can do is keep it away from the kids.”

Nick Doody

38 Responses to “26th January 2010”

  1. Greg Says:

    LOL! Yes, a very appropriate AQOTD.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: indoctrinating children with to believe in bronze-age myths as “truth” constitutes child abuse.

  2. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    Funny! I’d I add that I wish they’d keep its crap off my lawn!

  3. Bornagain A. Theist Says:

    Very true, Greg. It most certainly is child abuse, far worse than blistering a butt now and then for inappropriate behavior. It would be nice if we did away with all the play pretty myths that are present in our culture, as well. Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, etc. But none are so damaging as the one “pretend” that parents never tell the kids the truth about… the mystical, mythological pretend sky daddy that erodes innocent atheist children into indoctrinated robotic followers of ‘nothing’.

    The Westboro Baptist Church, under the leadership of Fred Phelps, has hundreds of children running about so full of foolish lies that it makes a sane man sick. The Catholic Church kills millions by teaching NOT to use rubbers which would prevent the spread of AIDS.

  4. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    Funny quote!

    Greg, I would suggest that “myth” properly understood can indeed convey some “truth,” philosophically speaking; though definitely not with a “capital T” if you know what I mean. However, the problem arises when ignoramuses and megalomaniacs and their blindly obedient followers (such as Solomon, Phelps, etc…) claim myth to be fact based on faith – a recipe for stupidity and violence if ever there was one.

    BTW, and IMHO, Solomon and tech have brought the level of dialog here on AQOTD WAY down of late. I apologize for my part in this sorry tale.

  5. Greg Says:

    Hey Oxy. I think myths are great teaching tools. Properly employed they can help us learn right from wrong, etc. And I suppose one could label that as “truth” (as in ‘culturally acceptable’ and the ‘right’ way to behave, etc), but I feel it is abuse to lead our children to believe that these are anything more than just morality lessons based on mythology. The morality of the message is not the problem – the method used to instill the message is, in my mind.

    Hope that makes sense.

  6. tech Says:

    Teaching your children the things the good book teaches make strong adults out of them. Greg who’s stopping you or anyone for that matter to raise you’re child what ever way they want?. I think that most of you atheists love to squak a lot .Again I say you cant knock good.”Teach a child in the way he should go and when he is older he will not turn away from it.Proverbs 22:6 “The way he should go.”can be taken a lot of ways I know. I’m talking good morals.

  7. Atheist MC Says:

    Teaching children good morals without the baggage of religion makes strong, rational adults out of them. If they somehow manage to rationalise a belief in God when they are older, that’s their choice, but don’t saddle them with with sky fairy crap when they are too young to know either way.

  8. tech Says:

    What kind of crap are you instilling in you’re children???

  9. The Heretic Says:

    The kind that says that imaginary friends are only for the youngest of children. Adults should not have one.

  10. Atheist MC Says:

    What is it about theists that they cannot conceive of a morality without God? I can only assume that if their god’s non existence actually dawned on them they would be out raping and pillaging. Maybe it’s just as well these ethically challenged individuals are believers.

  11. Talnoy Says:

    “I’m talking good morals.”

    Good morals do not need god to be good.

  12. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    Read up on Social Contract, Tech. There are many examples of religious morality in the bible that are considered atrocities. Why do we not stone witches or the adulterous? Because SOCIETY has grown beyond the vicious barbarism of our old tribal history.

  13. Talnoy Says:

    I’m still wondering why these creationists troll an atheist forum on the internet anyways….. I mean, how insecure are you?

  14. tech Says:

    You fellows are alright and what you believe is ok with me.I said sometime ago I have no hidden agenda. You know what I believe. The Lord Jesus Christ is my Master. I was 23 yrs old when I decided to walk with Him.Its still the best decision that I ever made in my life.That was 35yrs ago. PRAISE THE LORD!!!!

  15. MagicAintReal Says:

    Tech you said that “Teaching your children the things the good book teaches make strong adults out of them.” Have you read the old testament? In Genesis 19:32 it says we should get our dad drunk and have sex with him to preserve our family. I will quote you again, “What kind of crap are you instilling in you’re children???”
    So Tech can you give me an answer to this question?
    Should we teach our children to get their father drunk and then have sex with him?
    Oh and I know, we atheists just pick and choose from the bible…IT’S ALL THE WORD OF GOD! IT SHOULD ALL BE CORRECT! Is this passage correct or is it not ok to bang your drunk father for procreation?

  16. Greg Says:

    tech, one can teach children to be moral individuals WITHOUT using the bible. One can also use Greek mythology and The Lord of the Rings.

    But that’s not the point. Brainwashing your child to believe that your bible is the written word of a real and tangible god is pure deception. It may be something that YOU believe, but a child is not old enough to discern truth from fiction – they’ll take your word for it. You are abusing your trust as a parent and doing your children a disservice by limiting them to a very narrow world view. It is child abuse.

    You want to be a good parent and give your children as much of a chance as possible to succeed in the world? Don’t limit their imaginations by saddling them with your religious baggage.

  17. Greg Says:

    I don’t want to sound like a heretic here, but at least tech is trying to engage in debate here without resorting to name calling. Got to give him some props for that.

  18. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    Tech – Do you believe that an atheist can possess ethics and morals equivalent to a theist?

  19. tech Says:

    Magicaintreal if you want to use that interpretation by all means, after it is you’re interpretation. But I must warn you, back then they were not as knowledgeable as we are today. The same things that go on in the world today went on in those days as well.That doesn’t make it right.

  20. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    The story surrounding Genesis 19:32 quoted by MagicAintReal DOES NOT say “we should get our dad drunk and have sex with him to preserve our family.” The story of Lot and his daughters assumes exactly the opposite, and is meant to be a criticism of the Moabites and Ammonites, hated-but-related to the Israelites (three nations that do not actually exist at the time of the setting of this story, a fact also assumed by this story).

    It does no one any favors to challenge a bad reading of the Bible – or any other text – in general (tech) with an equally bad reading of a particular text (MagicAintReal). Proof-texting is for the intellectually lazy, whether theist or atheist.

    Note also that no reading of this particular text is dependent on the factuality of the story itself. The story may or may not have actually happened, but that is a different question (historical-critical scholarship suggests it almost certainly did not, yet it is possible). Also note that there is a “moral” lesson here of sorts, but, like ALL moral stories, it is highly debatable, even within the pages of the Bible. The moral is something like this: Those Moabites and Ammonites are as bad as they are because Lot’s daughters literally screwed him while drunk, i.e., bad beginnings lead to bad outcomes. My guess – yes, I said guess – is that the original audience would have laughed and knowingly nodded their heads at this joke at the expense of their national rivals. But is the moral true?

    There is also something else to consider that the likes of tech and Solomon are probably loathe to admit: the “moral” of this story does not in any way depend on the existence or non-existence of God (I would argue that no moral does, along the same lines as Dawkins’ interesting claim to be a “cultural Christian”). The moral is in the story – call it a myth if you like – and only in the story. This is what I mean by claiming that a myth/story can convey “truth.” But that “truth” is ALWAYS provisional and debatable. The story contains the supposed “truth,” but no “truth” is based on the story. That is simply bad theology, not to mention bad epistemology.

    I am a theist who CAN and DOES conceive of a morality not dependent on God. In fact, I think an honest reading of the Bible – in all its versions – Jewish, Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox – requires it.

    I believe the Bible to be a valuable and interesting book. I can even agree with expressing my understanding of it as “the Word of God” (not the “words of God” as tech, positively, and MagicAintReal, negatively, seem to treat it). But even the Word of God is very much “just a book.” Get over it and deal with it, true believers!

    Finally, though I understand the criticism that underlies the “teaching the Bible is child abuse” thread here, I think it is overstated. However, I will say this: The Bible is a book for thoughtful adults, not children. tech sort of confirms this (well, except for the thoughtful part) when he points out that he “was 23 yrs old when I decided to walk with Him.”

    P.S. to Cap’n: I wouldn’t want tech and Solomon crapping in my yard either.

  21. tech Says:

    Captain Zero, of course an atheist can possess ethics and morals equivalent to a theist.

  22. tech Says:

    Christthinker, Thanks for clearing that up. Like I said before everything in text read it all before you try to pick it apart. As for me I have plenty of help when it comes to the good book.I love that book and I love to read it. It teaches me the finer things in life.

  23. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    Thanks, Tech. How, in your opinion, does an atheist come by good moral character?

  24. tech Says:

    Myself as a Christain will never pretend to have a monopoly on teaching good moral character or christains being the only ones to have it. I assume that an atheist would come this by a good up bringing.

  25. The Heretic Says:

    My question is this – what percentage of theists with deplorable moral and ethical clarity think that saying 10 “our Father’s” and 10 “Hail Mary’s” is good enough to absolve them of all of the attrocities they committed 10 minutes ago?

  26. Greg Says:

    Provide the kind of education for your children that won’t leave them crippled by your bias.

    This goes for theists AND atheists.

  27. tech Says:

    I agree with what you just posted Greg.

  28. tech Says:

    Heretic , I don’t know I think you should ask a catholic.

  29. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    There are periodic stories about parents that make terrible decisions in child rearing that they justify with literal interpretations of the bible. The two I remember last year:

    1. Parents deny diabetes treatment to their son because they have total faith that god will heal their child. Child died a pretty horrific death. Parents awaiting trial for murder.

    2. Woman decides that she was told in a dream that she should stop getting her children vaccinated. State disagrees and intervenes to finish the kids vaccinations.

    3. Boy dies of untreated urinary blockage as his faith healer parents do nothing.

    Child abuse laws in 30 states still provide some form of protection for practitioners of faith healing in cases of child neglect and other matters.

    In each of these recent cases, the uniting factor was using religion rather than reason. If I ask you to name an immoral action taken IN THE NAME OF atheism, you’ll have difficulty. In I ask you to name an immoral action taken IN THE NAME OF religious faith, you won’t have to hesitate a second.

    Religious and non-religious people commit crimes. Non-religious just commit them at a lower level. The statistics bear this out and I think it’s worth noticing and wondering why.

  30. solomon Says:

    Child abuse does not come from teaching religion.
    Its the work of ill empty hearted parents(Atheist )

  31. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    I have a heart. It’s full of blood.

  32. Greg Says:

    Yes Solomon. You’re right. How could I have been so fucking blind?!

    Atheism is the road to ruin. We’re all evil bastards, just waiting to throw ourselves into a crowded market with explosives strapped to our bodies. I cannot WAIT to get home to see my wives. Well, their eyes, anyways. And this weekend I’m going to kill my sister because she had the fucking AUDACITY to get gang raped. What a whore.

    Allah Akbar.

  33. John Says:

    “Child abuse does not come from teaching religion.”

    No my buddy solomon, it’s the excuse they use and the forgiveness and solace they seek from religion; they get when they abuse kids.

  34. solomon Says:

    Dear CaptainZero1969,

    Yeah….its full of contaminated blood.

  35. solomon Says:

    Dear John,
    In what way a child is abused? In teaching good values & truth is what you call abuse?A senseless accusation.

  36. solomon Says:

    To all Atheist,

    Why don’t you adopt a decent approach of discovering the wonders of science
    by prooving Gods revelations on that subject. Youll get the sureness & confidence & at the same time be saved from Hell.

  37. solomon Says:

    Dear Greg,

    Yeah…youve been so fuckin’ blind.

    “Most natural disasters and terrorist attacks are God’s punishment for a society that tolerates homosexuality”(and other sins)

    Fred Waldron Phelps, Sr.


  38. Greg Says:

    You’re quoting Fred Waldron Phelps, Sr??!!!!!