5th April 2010

“I start from an instinctive wish for the decline of organised religion, which I consider to be – in its liberal as well as authoritarian forms – a force opposed to pluralism and scientific inquiry.”

Oliver Kamm

27 Responses to “5th April 2010”

  1. GoodWithoutGod Says:

    A great quote for a weekend when hundreds of millions of people celebrate an event that is physically impossible, yet will kill to defend their belief in it.

  2. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    Oxy – maybe you could represent the liberal religionist perspective?

    I think it at least arguable that religion begins with a premise that miracles are both demonstrably true and, perversely, require no evidence (since there isn’t any). What else is it all, if not “miraculous”? Science, on the other hand, cannot exist this way and so is from the start adversarial toward the religious mind set. Similarly, each of the thousands of sects must feel in some sense that they are “right”. This unlikely notion works against pluralism because everyone else is in some sense “wrong”. One cannot help but seek the “right” side’s ascendancy no matter how much “tolerance” you claim.

  3. solomon Says:

    I wonder why god imply Hell is a just place for them(atheists or of that sort).
    Due to arrogant & boast will always deny truth even they knew its true.
    I rest my case.

  4. John Says:

    I think a lot of the foolishness about religion followers is that there is safety in numbers and no body wants to admit that they are wrong or being played the fool. Besides, religion just plainly exists in the mind and only appears to be a human creation. As for hell, I do not believe that there would be any Atheist there; only christians and muslims as they appear to be the only fools that believe in the place that is once again only a creation of the human mind.

  5. solomon Says:

    Your thoughts are wrong John.You are ranting words without knowledge.True religion followers (there are many false religion and only a single true one) besides on the safe side is only a few, while hypocrates,infidels,non-believers or atheists make up the lots.True religionist does not plainly become one easily.They have gone thru thoughts, proofs and divine knowledge that their true hearts even does not have the thought or in fear to run away from it.Thats where faith comes in.Not simply blindly following some naturalist or evolutionist fools which they will regret later.
    Yeah…its exactly as what God told us,the unbelievers believe they will not be burn by the fires of Hell.Just wait and we will be waiting too.

  6. Atheist MC Says:

    Liberal theism is unfortunately the ecosystem that supports fundementalism. Without the vast majority of moderate religionists maintaining the institutions, networks and clergy of their faiths, extremists of all stripes would be isolated.
    For this reason I am against religion of all kinds, and the tribalism it sustains.

  7. Atheist MC Says:

    Of course I exclude from the above followers of the one true religion”

  8. steve Says:

    Setting aside all the controversies that surround Mr. Kamms politics and polemics, and simply addressing his quote, it is amazing to note the inertia behind organized religions is still propelling it as a force amongst the liberal mindset. I understand that dogmatic fundamentalists would adhere to the superstitious rituals from a repressed sense of fear, but liberals purportedly claim to be thinking people, trying to make change and better the world of mankind.

    Organized religion is opposed to more than pluralism and scientific inquiry, it is opposed to free and critical thought. Organized religion would have us believe that we rely on it for our continued existence, and they leverage that fallacy to usurp our freedoms of enterprise, thought, and privacy.

    Having said that his quote does not go far enough, I will agree that Mr. Kamm’s instincts are spot on.

  9. John Says:

    Call it a rant if you’d like however, if religion was so great it would be already in the human mind and not require an indoctrination to install. Not unlike programming a computer, religion just plainly exists in the mind and only appears to be a human creation.

  10. steve Says:

    And thanks AMC, for that link. I too enjoy my pasta. It is the one religion that comes to mind which should be an exception from the above quoted ‘decline’.

    My sister painted a prayer bench with noodley appendages hanging from the roof, and we did hold a brief, minor service there for Easterbowlingday.
    Ramen

  11. steve Says:

    John, don’t let the trolls bother you.

    There is no hope for any ‘scientific inquiry’ there…

  12. solomon Says:

    Dear John,
    Have you just forgotten how you came about to exist?Who gave you that invincible power pact that make you alive and who suddenly will take it back?Have you forgotton that?If you bear that in mind other rants from liars,unbelievers becomes meaningless.The others are just people that have lose hope on truth.Do you want to follow their footsteps to HELL? There’s no other logical explanation rather than the one told by God.Everything have to be created.Do you buy the words of liars & sinners or the opposite?Faith does not come free or easy.It is developed.Its in this area you all are lacking and being swayed even further.Faith is as real as seeing heaven in front of your eyes when one have had a strong hold in it.

  13. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    Sol – you need to figure out what an idiom means before you use it. “I rest my case” usually means your done trying to convince.

    P.S. – There’s no hell. Get over it. Nobody here is afraid of your ghost stories.

  14. solomon Says:

    You all only rely on what you can see with your eyes,what you can feel with you skin,what you can hear with your ear,what you can smell with your nose & what you can think with your brain.But you all did’nt ever tried to communicate with your heart.

  15. Margaret Says:

    Sol:
    Did you not learn of the birds and the bees? Who created me? My parents had sex. Born one day before their 10th wedding anniversary, nice and legitimate. No mystery, just married sex.

  16. Alavi Hossain Says:

    solomon,
    why the hell would u believe in something u cannot understand? its one thing to try and understand it, but it’s another to believe it without any evidence. id rather think with my brain than my heart. and after all, the heart only feels what the brain perceives. ur also an idiot.

  17. John Says:

    Damn, I have run my antivirus twice now and the virus still appears. My system has forsaken me.

    Steve: I saw the troll on a park bench Saturday. He asked me for some change for something to eat, I said that “I will buy you lunch” and he said “no thanks”…

  18. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    Sol – you cannot communicate with your heart. This emotional puffery is unconvincing and more than a little juvenile. You’re like an adolescent girl saying you should be allowed to go the the party BECAUSE YOU REALLY REALLY WANT TO. As the parent in this diagram, the answer is still no. Grow up, dude.

  19. steve Says:

    Now Cap’n, be patient.

    Sollie must have thought the quote read pleurisy instead of pluralism, in which case he might actually hear his own heart beating away… …ka…ka… …ka…ka… …ka…ka…

    Oh, that’s right, I no longer have to defend him.

    Nevermind.

    Proceed to skewer, Cap’n!

  20. solomon Says:

    Margaret,
    I have only one question for you and give me a straight answer.Who create the 1st. human.Is it their father & mother???

  21. Holysmokes Says:

    I wonder who created the first god?

  22. solomon Says:

    Holysmokes,
    Bingo!…..at last you have begin to wonder.Thats a good progress.From wondering you will search,crave for an answer rather than shutting up ones mind practiced by the atheists fools.
    And for your wondering, hear this.

    He begetteth not, nor is he begotten.
    And there is none like unto Him.
    Sura 112:3-4

    As he says none is like him,that means to say if other than him is created, then by not being the same as others automatically means nothing creates him or in other words he exist on his own.The nature of his existence is beyond our mind to grasp.Think it this way.Can you imagine, does the universe has an end.

  23. solomon Says:

    Alavi,
    You pose a question that is not whats things suppose to work out.You yourself limits your question into entrapping yourself.Its God who wants us to understand,thats why we are being told.And its not that hard to accept it.Gods words have fill in every voids & gaps in our hearts that we have been boggling about.Youre talking about evidence.Evidence have become an outdated ugly word when you have grasp faith.You can’t get a decent evidence even in a simple court case, yet you are struggling with evidence.
    Again you try to deny what an important role the heart plays.Do you fall in love with your brain?Do you feel sad or happy with your brain?The Jelly Fish has no Brain.On what does the Jelly Fish depends on making Decisions?

  24. solomon Says:

    And that explaination goes to you too CaptainZero1969.

  25. Alavi Hossain Says:

    solomon,
    im not limiting myself, im simply throwing out the question of something so improbable. it is extremely hard to accept an idea that has virtually no evidence for it. and of course evidence is a ugly word to religion, im really glad u brought that up. u have just shown the world how stupid u and millions of other people really are. if i told u tiny transsexual baboon flies me to the moon every friday, would u believe me without any form of evidence? i certainly hope not. and i will reference CaptainZero1969 for your statements about the heart. it is very juvenile to bring up the heart as the actual source of thought. ur brain relays emotions and in creates reactions in the heart as well as other parts of the body. yes u actually do fall in love with your brain. of course love is a very hard thing to give a practical explanation to with science or any other form of logic, but we do know what reactions take place in the body when one feels love. and jellyfish do not really think, they have nervous systems which respond to external forces.

  26. solomon Says:

    And what tells their nervous systems to decide what to do?

  27. solomon Says:

    Not fast enough Alavi,to simplify others as stupid.It will soon surface who are the stupid ones.You are citing the lousy baboon of yours as an example.Real religion is no baboon stuffs.You are bluffing when you said ur brain relays emotions.Nobody says that.Our hearts produce emotions.