2nd August 2010

“No wickedness comes anywhere near the wickedness of a woman… Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die.”

Ecclesiasticus 25:19,24

26 Responses to “2nd August 2010”

  1. YourSkepticalGuy Says:

    Just to state the obvious: This quote is further evidence that this type of crap is put forth by misogynistic males hell-bent on repression – particularly repression of women. It is wicked and sinful to write/repeat/believe this garbage.


  2. Godkilla Says:

    It’s relly stretching it to suggest that out mortal physiology is all down to the female of the species. I’d love to know what modern christians think of this quote – tech?

    Surely this view cannot still be prevalent in todays modern world…apart from in the medieval minds of islamists of course and we all know what their view of women is.

    BTW a more cynical godkilla could have said – as a divorced person – that this quote is unequivocally true.

  3. The Heretic Says:

    All religions need to assign blame to something. Why not the mother of (your) children? Not like she suffers any other indignities.

  4. Braathwaat Says:

    Well, I can’t really argue with the 1st part of the quote, but I grew up in Los Angeles.

  5. Grumpy Old Git Says:

    Can we please have a sensible quote for discussion?

  6. Atheist MC Says:

    It’s a perfectly reasonable quote to discuss. Well by reasonable…
    There is evidence that a lot of early religions were very female focussed. Even early polytheistic judaism had felmale deities and consorts. The demonisation of the feminine seems to have been a distinct effort to impose a patriachy on society, which has been the Abrahamic religions tactic since.

  7. Margaret Says:

    Today’s quote is the underpinning of the double-standard. Even today, in the Southern parts of the USA, if a woman curses, she is considered coarse and crude, but if a man says the exact same thing, it is not so bad. If a man gets angry and raises his voice, he is assertive, but if a woman does it, she is a strident, bitter bi*ch. Nope, a woman is supposed to use her feminine wiles to charm what she needs from the men. But wait a minute, if she does that, she is a conniving, manipulative bi*ch. Oh well.

    The religions want the women to cope by simply surrendering to the patriarchy. If she is under the thumb of her father, and then her husband, the bomb is defused, so to speak. The religious market this control of women as a way to protect women, under threat of assault. If any of you do not believe me, think for a minute of a particular individual’s defense of the burka as the best of possible attire in 100 degree weather. Even in America, you hear the Line “she asked for it”.

    I want to throw a line of reasoning out there to all you XY-gene people? Question: have any of you ever given any money to charity? If so, then how can you complain if someone knocks you in the head and takes your wallet? After all, you don’t value your money, if you did, you would not give it away. So you get what you get.

    That is the same reasoning used to justify the rape of women. Unless she is an underage virgin, she is soiled, and therefore free to be used. Now, under the patriarchy, women are supposed to be used by men, but then they are the objects of contempt. Women are not respected. For you holders of the XY gene, when one of your buds calls you a “P**sy, or girly boy, or sissy”, you do not consider it a compliment, do you? Nope, words of the feminine attributes are an insult.

    Now, do not get me wrong. I like men. I dislike the double standard. I work in the medical field, so I have to project an image of professionalism, without being cold and uncaring. Since I want to give the best possible care, being warm is never a problem for me. But I never flirt, and I stay focused on the job at hand. This way, my behaviour is clean and befitting of the professionalism required. Here, I give you guys my opinion, but you see, this is just a release for me, I am not used to having any forum to share ideas, since I am alone most of the time. I like hearing what other people think, and I sincerely believe atheists are more interesting than “regular people”, ha ha, whatever that means. In the Bilble Belt of the southern USA, atheists are harder to find.

    So even if I do not like the “double standard”, I mostly comply to it. I am quieter than most men, do not curse, and do not flirt. Appropriate feminine behavior, right? You see, the standards of etiquette, decency, morals, etc, whatever people want to call it, are stricter for females. We walk a narrower tight-rope.

    That being said, I believe men are often treated wrongly by women. The same patriarchy that directs the man to be the protecter of women, can be twisted by those of us with the XX gene to use men. It is a shame. Women looking to marry a man because he has lots of $$$. I know a woman who has plenty of assets herself who took her ex to the cleaners in the divorce settlement, and she is working and making good $$ now. When the divorce laws were first in place, women did not work and had no way to support themselves if they were deserted. Men had ALL the power then, and women had no options, other than go man to man, and take from each one. Horribly true, but a certain percentage of us with the XX gene enjoy doing that, just as a certain percentage of you with the XY gene like being brutal to women. Why, o why, can’t those 2 sub-species of XX and XY only make each other miserable and leave the rest of us alone?

    You of the tribe XY need nurturing, and there is nothing wrong with that. Us of the XX tribe want someone on our side, too, and there is nothing wrong with that either. It could be so much simpler if we treated each other simply as human beings, each of us a little different, but without the social construct of use or be used.

    Today’s quote directs men to hate women for being women, blame them for all that is wrong in the world. How illogical is that? Religion markets itself as pro-marriage and pro-family, but if one meditates a little on today’s quote, it becomes obvious religion is up to it’s usual antics of being a mind virus intent on having us all under its thumb, women and men unhappily living under a twisted power structure that make neither XX or XY happy.

  8. Atheist MC Says:

    Margaret: Sheesh that’s quite a rant and opens up a whole can of annelidae on sexual politics which we’ll never unravel here.
    I think that in the west we a more informed by the judeo christian culture than we realise. Patriachal religion has “normalised” (in the technical sense) gender roles in its image and all the time religion is seen as a benchmark for how things ought to be it is hard to escape that cultural influence.
    In general atheists are much less misogynistic than theists, but that needs qualifying by the tradition. In general atheists are more socially liberal anyway, better educated and better off than theist which may also contribute to bias.
    The more fundemental a religionist is the more comfort he can find for his view of women as inferior. Remember in many protestant traditions still prevalent in the U.S women are expressly told to obey their husbands and their husbands feel justified in punishing them. It makes you wonder if some men are attracted to those religions because its suits thir psycho-sexual fantasies to be able to dominate that way.
    In any event as in almost any area you care to name religion contributes nothing positive and things between the XX and Xy’s of this world would be better without it.
    By the way you should get your keyboard looked at, it doesn’t seem to let you type “bitch”. 🙂

  9. Margaret Says:

    Hmm, I am not ranting. I am not angry. I merely observe the mix of XY + XX + religion is not a simple thing. Religion still shapes expectations in our culture, even if we do not exactly follow every little prohibition. (I am wearing a mixed fiber item of clothing now, but I do not expect to be stoned for it, for example).

    But the men (and women)I work around would consider me a crude coarse bitch if I cursed. That is just the way it is, so I hesitate to use the word in everyday sentences.

    Sexual politics, as you say, is a can of worms. I merely observe religion has played a part in that.

  10. Hypatia Says:

    “thanks to her we all must die”

    Wow! I’m used to my gender getting the blame for original sin, being a temptress and all, but now we’re responsible for death itself!

    A deep vein of misogyny seems to run through all the Abrahamic religions. The trouble is that when something becomes a religious issue it becomes even harder than to change than a cultural issue (which is hard enough)

  11. solomon Says:

    All the rants above would not happen to women if it were to follow real Islamic rules. Islam is the 1st. religion that campaign into protecting women and their rights during the dark ages. You can see the beauty of Islam if you read more regarding the treatment women receive in Islam than to the moral standards propagated by the west in todays scenario.

  12. Margaret Says:

    So religion demands women follow the narrow restrictive rules that do not apply to men.

    Your own words prove the truth of what we atheists say, you rube.

    Ugh, religious men are icky.

  13. archaeopteryx Says:

    The quotation illustrates the quite horrifying attitudes that form the basis of morality for three major religions. Unless it’s one of those bits of the bible that we are supposed to ignore? And if so, how do we know?

    Solomon took much longer than usual to comment – I was wondering where he was! He asked for a theistic quotation and got one. He hasn’t responded to it, but has instead commented on the comments. And I don’t see what he claims to see when I look at islamic treatment of women. In fact, I think Solomon is a joker who tries to wind up those who try to lead evidence-based lives.

  14. Devout Atheist Says:

    Solomon, You make me laugh.

    as for the quote.
    (on a lighter note)

    The only time I see truly wicked women, I’m paying for a special service. 🙂

  15. captainzero1969 Says:

    Hypatia – Eden was, apparently, a deathless please where we’d have lived with all the talking, and seemingly vegan animals, forever. But for that, that, that WOMAN.

    Abrahamic attitudes toward woman help demonstrate that they were founded by primitives that viewed woman as chattel. Sadly this view persists even as it is protested by its practitioners.

  16. solomon Says:


    I’ve been busy all day attending a course. And tomorrow too. Thats why I did’nt have the time to peek into todays quote.

    “I think Solomon is a joker who tries to wind up those who try to lead evidence-based lives.”
    So you think only things that is visible is evidence. Don’t you realize that the eye is a very weak instrument. It can’t see wind, gravity, magnetic fields and many other things that they termed supernatural, in fact they are real as any other things that they termed as evidence. You just don’t understand the absolute nature of things due to your arrogance & boastfulness.

  17. solomon Says:

    Narrow or restrictive rules are only in the minds of those who hates the true religion. If you debate one by one of those rules you will find nothing whatsoever which is unfair or deprive of the moral rights of women. Propagated lies are carefully orchestrated by you to tarnish the beauty of the Islamic teachings.

  18. archaeopteryx Says:

    A course in spelling and grammar, I hope, Solomon. Why don’t you develop your joke a little further and describe the evidence that supports the beliefs you pretend you hold?

  19. Margaret Says:

    I would so much like to forcibly give Sol a sex-change operation and then drop her into Yemen, Chad, or Afghanistan. Let her see for herself how beautiful the Islamic regime is for females.

    But atheists don’t force anything on anyone. Darn it! But I have a new fantasy now.

  20. Hypatia Says:

    What a great idea for a body swap movie! An imam wakes up one day to find he’s swapped bodies with a women! Just imagine the hilarious chaos until he learns to be suitably submissive!

  21. Braathwaat Says:

    Sol, to suggest Islam is even remotely fair to woman is insulting. Any conduct that undermines the idea of male supremacy will fall foul of Sharia Law.
    Woman count as 1/2 a man in court, Woman cannot drive cars, get educated, dress how they please, Islam allows husbands to beat their wives, If a woman cannot produce eye witness’s to her being raped she will be punished (by death) for infidelity! This list goes on & on.

  22. Godkilla Says:


    That’s the best idea I’ve heard for quite some time, I’d go and see it!

  23. solomon Says:


    All the above that you rant did’nt happen in a real Islamic countries. Youre sprouting great lies.

  24. solomon Says:

    For your info I’am attending a SIX SIGMA black belt course.

  25. YourSkepticalGuy Says:

    Margarent & Hypatia: Quite the “fun” idea for the XY religionistas to experience life as a XX.

    Many of the points raised above help explain why global education and empowerment of the XX-half is so vital. That the Elders (speaking through Jimmy Carter over a year ago) could argue against the quote (in a fashion) is one of the reasons I think he is different from many US presidents. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-JcpNBiRcM&feature=youtube_gdata

    The equality is the key of course, not the promotion of the clergy specifically… 😉


  26. Braathwaat Says:

    Sol, last time I looked Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, Sudan & Egypt were “real” Islamic countries. You seem to think that if you say something is true or false then it is true or false. That may be a defense mechanism for you to hide the ugly truth about your religion but at some point you & the Muslim world need to pull your head out of the sand & see Islam for what it really is.