6th October 2010

“What is the crux of secularism? It is that belief in an underlying moral equality of humans implies that there is a sphere in which individuals should be free to make their own decisions.”

Larry Siedentop

19 Responses to “6th October 2010”

  1. GreatEighthSin Says:

    Oh the humanity! Not freedom of will! Anything but that! /sarcasm

  2. j sutton Says:

    No it isn’t. The modern interpretation of this much misused term has come to mean:

    “the strict separation of Church and State”

  3. teddy.......... Says:

    well, i’m wrong. i thought the sept 30 quote was the stupidest

    quote i’d seen yet ( on qotd )………..but TODAY’S quote takes the

    prize. insipid inane drivel !!

  4. Atheist MC Says:

    Yep! Drivel. He seems to be conflating secularism with some vague idea of humanism. But it fails on that as well. Next!

  5. teddy Says:

    to atheist MC…………

    larry siedentop is a hopeless academic, and a master bullshitter…..

    just look at his credentials !!! he is known for these ponderous and

    weighty thoughts that carry about as much substance as helium.

    i wish QOTD would quit using such weak sisters. there’s just too

    much good stuff to quote that will , most assuredly , engender


  6. Mike G. Says:

    Am I the only one that likes this quote? It seems like other quotes tend to attack religious belief, which, as it appears, everyone is on board with here. I know we all like a bit of affirmation of why the other side is wrong, but I can we whittle down our own beliefs and define precisely what we stand for?

    Under the umbrella of secularism, we have the separation of church and state. Yet why is this? Because people indeed are equal. Yet when church has a hand in politics, the rights of certain minorities can and will be abused. Secularity and humanism walk parallel paths.

  7. holysmokes Says:

    Mike G, regarding your question: Can we whittle down our own beliefs and define precisely what we stand for?

    We stand for facts and evidence. It really is that simple. No “faith” based on thin air.

  8. Wat Duino Says:

    “… belief in an underlying moral equality of humans… individuals should be free to make their own decisions.” OF COURSE!
    As a secularist, or atheist, or humanist, or whatever, I do not feel the need to convert anyone to my way of thinking. Christians are instructed to “go forth and spread the Gospel”. Muslims are encouraged to “spread the Faith by the sword”. I am very content to live and let live and , as my bumper sticker says, “Just Be Nice”.

  9. tech Says:

    I was never free until I became a Christian.Free, free,free from this world of sin.

  10. Atheist MC Says:

    Secularism is more about challenging legislation against certain behaviour just because one or more religions deem it immoral. While I believe the core of human morality is innate and evolved, that doesn’t mean all people are morally equal; if they were there would be no psychopaths. There are somethings on which a secular consensus can be reached; murder, theft, usery, violence, rape all come immediately to mind. Things like private sexual behaviour, modes of dress, self intoxication etc are meta-morals often proscribed by religion and do not necessarily have the agreement of most people outside of those religions.

  11. teddy Says:

    YAY for WAT !!!!!

    i rest my case concerning larry siedentop.

  12. Dan Says:

    Christians sin quite a bit, so by “freeing you from sin,” you must mean that Christianity absolves you of responsibility for your crimes. Personally I find that revolting – that Christians use religion as an excuse to avoid taking responsibility for their actions.

  13. Eric Says:

    Yah, this quote is kinda washy. I’ve read it three times and I think he made a “deepity” to quote Daniel Denning.


  14. Mike G Says:

    @Holy smokes….

    I think you missed my point, dude. I don’t know where where you derived from my post that I said atheists rely on faith. What I was saying is that we must define what we stand for, rather than rallying against the opposition. Take what you said for example, about the facts and evidence- then take it one step further. So we have a heap of data and evidence laying in front of us, yes we can yell about what it does not represent, but it takes an extra step for us to analyze and say “Hey, this is what it really is about.”

    We cannot ‘stand’ for evidence. These things are purely objective, what we can do is look at the evidence and reach a conclusion.

    Have a good one!


  15. opleaze..... Says:

    i think holysmokes is mainly correct. however, where atheists may
    disavow faith, and its practices…………we do not disavow

  16. Atheist MC Says:

    @Mike G
    I don’t think atheists stand for anything. Collectively we don’t believe in personal gods: That is all you can say. Some of us are humanists, some of us are socialists, some of us are libertarians, some of us are liberals, some are conservative and some of us are obnoxious assholes. It is inaccurate to suggest that there are necessarily common goals.
    This is a good thing; religions are collectivist constructs that are more akin to fascistic or command communism: Ideologically driven. I don’t think I want to be a part of an atheist manifesto in that way.
    That being said, personally I would also define myself as a socially liberal humanist and would happily seek common cause with with others of that persuasion but atheism per se is not a rallying point for me.

  17. Kaptain Says:

    Ignorance is bliss, eh? How can you read what these guy’s and gal’s say in this forum and not comprehend one single idea. Incredible

  18. tech Says:

    We all sin but we don’t have to be slaves to it. Your talking about crimes ,sin is sin.Murder or something simple as a little white lie. I don’t behind any religion or use for an excuse to sin.

  19. Dan Says:

    You’re not making any sense. Please think before you type so people can understand you.