5th August 2011

“To the religiously minded, altruism is an illusion, we are all irredeemable sinners and only God can save us.”


29 Responses to “5th August 2011”

  1. nonDelusionalReality Says:

    Altruism, where all our morals and ethics come from. Deep inside each of us is a social sentient being who wants to make a cohesive society that works for each and everyone of us. It’s a natural drive stemming from our need of others to survive together.

  2. Dan Says:

    Nice quote, too bad it’s anonymous. And yes, it’s a rather depressing portrait of humanity that religious minds do paint.

  3. solomon Says:

    To the religious, altruism is a practice. So saying its just an illusion is a blatant !!LIE!! Yeah its very true, only God can save or pardon us.

  4. RJ Says:


    i have thought, off and on, that you are really the

    composite writing of a group of three people…….and that

    your posts on this site exist only as the (( FICTIONAL )) ” defender

    of the faith “……………………..and that the function of your

    persona is to consistently deliver heated, excited, and fully

    illogical pro-faith balderdash to keep things stirred up, and to

    provide a handy target for the more dedicated atheists.

    Well, as i say, i have felt this on occassion………….. but lately,

    your posts have been so ridiculous that i simply cant believe you’re

    anything but a hoax.

    i apologize to MY fellow contributors …………but i think ” SOL ”

    is a contrived plant……..and i dont want to respond to

  5. RJ Says:

    (sorry about that…………….)

    to respond to sol’s bullshit anymore.

  6. R J Says:


  7. R J Says:


  8. archaeopteryx Says:

    It is indeed sad to think that anyone really could be as delusional as solomon would have us believe he is.

    Unfortunately, the wider world contains corroborating evidence that suggests it is possible.

  9. Rambler Says:

    For a religious person true altruism does not exist. Every good deed is done with an ulterior motive in mind, the thought of eternal rewards in heaven, or to escape punishment in hell. One’s deeds cannot be considered altruistic if they are done out of fear of punishment or hope for reward, which are selfish motives.

  10. Atheist MC Says:

    The religious idea that we are all sinners is one of its most repulsive aspects.

  11. Kugtix Says:

    @ Atheist MC
    To say that we aren’t all “sinners” is ridiculous though. Everyone has done something harmful to someone else and hasn’t led a perfectly altruistic life. I would say it is depressing to think of humanity like this, but it’s naive to say that the religious aren’t right in this thought.

  12. Atheist MC Says:

    It’s the concept that we are all neccessarily bad without the redemption of [insert sky fairy here] that I find abhorrent.
    People are in fact intrinsically good and altruistic in the main, and deliberate evil is rare. It may “only” be because we evolved as a social species, but so what?

  13. PEB Says:

    To err is human…not sinful.
    The thought that people are branded ‘sinners’ from the moment they are born just so they pack the pews (and the church collection plates) is vile.

  14. electrabotanical Says:

    And the idea that one man was completely without sin because his silly mommy concocted a story about being impregnated with God-spawn is also ridiculous.
    The “evidence” in the babble shows me that he did sin. I’d say that little episode during passover when Jesus cursed the fig tree was sinful. Couldn’t other people have benefitted from that tree even after he was gone? Not very altruistic…

  15. Jeff Says:

    Surprisingly, altruism can be rationally derived from game theory! One of the most basic, and highly successful, game strategies is Tit for Tat, but only if one starts by making a move which is “good” for the other side. Beginning with a “bad” move degenerates quite quickly into an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth situation, where all you end up with is a bunch of blind folks who can’t chew – bad for the survival of a social species such as ourselves. On the other hand, two or more players, all using the simple Tit for Tat strategy will quickly become a cooperative if the first move is “good” for the other players – call it something as simple as a smile. It is only when one player breaks their original strategy, usually for short term personal gain, where the society breaks down. Unfortunately, most humans are incapable of maintaining a consistently long range viewpoint, and short term interest overcomes the most viable long term strategy.

  16. Jeff Says:

    Please note that many of the best minds that have existed on the planet have recognized the above facts. Just a single quote in illustration:

    The more you are motivated by love, the more fearless and free your actions will be. – Katherine Mansfield.

  17. solomon Says:

    Bravo!!!….Kugtix Bravo!!!…

  18. solomon Says:


    Don’t try to bluff. Rewards of heavens or punishments in !!HELL!! are just appreciations or deterrents for ignorant lots who could not think for themselves the meaning of thankful to the Lord. True believers practice altruism or good deeds for the love, the appreciation to God who at all times maintain their sustenance with utmost honesty, abiding God’s rules with full respect.

  19. solomon Says:

    Atheist MC,

    “The religious idea that we are all sinners is one of its most repulsive aspects.”

    That is a very wrong concept and not a true accusation.
    No one is a sinner if he doesn’t commit one.

  20. nonDelusionalReality Says:

    What “Jeff” said just proves that religion isn’t needed to explain morals and ethics of a society, yet the theist on board gave him a big BRAVO! There is an example and proof of religiously illogical thought processes going on here. Religious thought literally damages the connections between the left and right hemispheres of the brain (left is logical thought, right is creative thought). There by keeping logic (and reality) from ever communicating with the creative(imagination) in the right. So the imagination runs wild without a control. Religious minds are literally separated into 2 separate halves. They literally compartmentalize their religion from reality in their brains. MRI & CAT scans have shown their brainwaves to match mental patients(schizophrenics).

  21. R J Says:


    your post of 11:14 was excellent…..and certainly puts

    mental cases like Sister Teresa in a proper light.

  22. R J Says:

    to Arch……………. (( RE post at 9:38 ))

    i agree. there are FAR more dangerous and delusional people

    than “sol” running around……..and engaged in dangerous, violent, and

    sometimes fatal acts.

    but “sol’s” rantings on this little site are (for me) just a touch TOO

    perfectly screwed up and ponderous to be real.

    BUT, if he WAS real…………….i think he’d be a great candidate

    for suicide bomber training !!!!!!!

  23. Atheist MC Says:

    That is a very wrong concept and not a true accusation.
    No one is a sinner if he doesn’t commit one.

    This is reasonably true in Islam, but not in christianity. However many of the things Islam considers to be sins are not reasonable in the light of contemporary ethics, so it amounts to the same thing.

  24. Atheist MC Says:

    Btw, there may be more than the usual HTML faux pas since I just got an iPad and Steve Jobs has an annoying habit of trying to think for me… Arrogance much 🙂

  25. solomon Says:


    “yet the theist on board gave him a big BRAVO!”

    I’am not commenting on Jeff. I’am applauding Kugtix. All the viewers can see that. You keep dreaming.

  26. solomon Says:


    Don’t rant about “minds are literally separated into 2 separate halves” or what.
    Check your brain functionality first.

  27. solomon Says:

    Some thoughts about intelligent design.

    Every creations or systems to the least should involve intelligent design in it. Even to locate the nose orientation needs intelligence. To deny its involvement would be the thoughts of the stupid arrogant blind hearted lots.

  28. Edmond Says:

    “Sin” is a purely religious concept, making it as fictional as anything else religion has to offer. The closest real-world parallel to “sin” is “crime”, but oddly only a handful of things that are categorized as sins are also crimes. Blasphemy, pre-marital sex, homosexuality, working weekends, eating pork, etc, are all “sins” that theists are expected to repent and atone for, but none are considered crimes by society. Why this disconnect where religion is concerned?

    Conversely, there are things that are crimes but are NOT sins. Polygamy springs to mind from recent headlines. All those who like to crow that marriage is between one man and one woman would be hard-pressed to demonstrate where this is supported in the bible. And one of the worst crimes imaginable in our society, pedophelia, is not even MENTIONED in the bible, let alone condemned. What’s going on here? Why is religion SO behind the curve when it comes to identifying destructive and undesirable behaviors?

    The human criminal justice system is exponentially better organized than that allegedly overseen by a deity, too. Commit a small crime, get a small punishment. Commit a large crime, get a large punishment. But in religion, ALL sins, no matter how insignificant or atrocious, suffer the same punishment of infinite torture. Our system recognizes that criminals can pay their debt and then rejoin society. Not so with the eternal, irreversible punishment offered by gods. The human system is also better in that it expects the criminal to actually be the one to pay for what they’ve done. What kind of system allows the punishment of one man to clear the wrongdoings of someone else? What kind of system punishes ongoing generations for the crimes of their ancestors? Something seriously stinks in Heaven.

    When will religion learn that the only TRUE crime, the only REAL “sin”, is causing HARM to others? This is the ONLY standard we need to judge morality and govern behavior. Don’t harm people. Don’t kill them. Don’t harm their propietorship (don’t steal). Live by this, and you’ll do no wrong. Break this rule, and you’ll be subject to punishment, but the punishment MUST fit the crime, there must be a predetermined point at which the punishment is fulfilled, and it must be restricted to ONLY the person that committed the crime.

    Any derivation from this is a bastardization of justice. If gods are real, then they have NO concept of justice. Only petty, grandstanding revenge.

    For the record, I personally ENJOY Sol’s presence and contributions. Without people like him, sites like this would just be a bunch of atheists patting each other on the back. That’s no fun!

  29. solomon Says:

    Thanks Edmond. For the last paragraph you’re right. But for other paragraph it could be debated further to find a point of agreement between the human and religious system.