22nd August 2012

“I know of no studies showing that atheists and agnostics are more arrogant than believers. In fact, given that they make no unverifiable religious claims, they are decidedly less sure of ultimate matters and their exalted place in the universe, and thus, arguably at least, less arrogant.”

John Allen Paulos

9 Responses to “22nd August 2012”

  1. R J Says:

    ” they make no unverifiable religious claims”

    ………too true…….oh, too true !!

  2. Xhim Says:

    Well, friends, I am for all intents and purposes dropping out of this exchange. When I started I was recovering from surgery, so had lots of time in front of the computer. But now I’m on the road a lot, and can barely check in, much less participate in the conversation. But I didn’t want to just disappear. I’ve learned a lot, developed at least some understanding of where you are coming from and how you think (to the point that in last week’s Bible study group I argued AGAINST having “In God We Trust” on our money!). Thank you for so graciously putting up with me.
    Normally I’d wish you God’s blessing (and maybe I will quietly anyway), but officially out loud I wish you all the best.

  3. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    I hope you have learned a lot, as I think you and all people need to learn all their lives. Some day I think you will let the little gremlin that is your hidden atheist out and see that he isn’t all that scary.

    Life without god is life outside the cave. You can’t go back and maybe that is what scares you the most, but one of the beauties of recognizing your atheism is in not having to reveal it if you don’t want to. Essentially you can still go to church. Next time you are in church try to figure out who the other atheists are.

    Also, I’m no where near as arrogant pubically as an atheist as I am in this forum.

    Ask yourself: Are religious people more or less arrogant than atheists where it comes to their belief or lack thereof?

    Now that you have experienced some atheist arrogance, perhaps you have come to understand religious arrogance, you can come to know the difference and which is more intrusive/abnoxious?

    In closing I’d not wish you god’s blessing as I’ve read the bible and know that god is a rather unsavory character, that his blessing is far more an insult to you and I would not want do insult you.

    Instead I’d offer you the blessings of one man to another which has the benefit of actually being real.

    Depend on the goodness of your fellow man, it is inate to our nature and all of life is in our nature. It is what we have, all we will ever have, and all we can ever share. Don’t waste it on supernatural dreams of gods, devils, and other assorted spooks.

  4. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    Oh and for perspective watch this video http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap120821.html

  5. Capt'Z Says:

    LOVE this quote. I agree completely. See ya, Xhim. Be well.

  6. cecilbothwell Says:

    Particularly true in that most folks who claim divine guidance somehow hear their own opinions being affirmed, or their changes of opinion being explained away.

    Recently Anne Romney cracked me up when she told reporters that the reason she changed her mind about Mittens run for the presidency (which he’d promised not to do again), was because God told her that Mittens had to do it to save the country.

  7. Jeff Says:


    My thanks for the argument in Bible study – I’m sure that went over about as well as a fart in church. Please remember that there was nothing gracious about us “putting up with” you, it was merely the respect paid to one who is willing to engage with others regardless of their aspects of agreement or disagreement. Pay it forward. Good luck and be well.

  8. Jeff Says:

    Re: cecilbothwell at 17:40:

    Well, that’s a bit different. At least it’s not the candidate claiming the voice of prophecy like when Michelle Bachmann did so, it’s just the candidate’s spouse.

  9. Sinjin Smythe Says:

    The Preamble to the U.S. Constitution:
    “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

    The Preamble to the Confederate Constitution:
    “We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity — invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God — do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Confederate States of America.”

    “invoking the favor…of Almighty God” What the heck is this preoccupation with god in governance?

    Next time you hear some nut telling you this nation was founded upon Judeo-Christian precepts tell them they are flatly wrong. It was the Confederacy that was founded upon religious nonsense.

    The entire justification for slavery was god’s instruction on the treatment of your slaves found in Deuteronomy.

    The United States founders knew of Islam, Buddism, and Hinduism in addition to Judaism and Christianity. They deliberately designed the Constitution to be apart from any religious faith, practice, and/or direction.

    It was the Christian Confederate that sought to institute Christian hegemony and privilege in the new nation. It is racist, bigoted, and stupid.