30th September 2009

“For cultures born of the Enlightenment, private religious belief is not so much an enemy as an irrelevance. What matters is that religion should not intrude into the public sphere. It must make its accommodation, however it chooses to get there, with modern mores, liberal values and secular education. If it won't, then it makes itself an enemy.”

Oliver Kamm

6 Responses to “30th September 2009”

  1. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    There are religious cultures “born of the Enlightenment” too, and very few religious beliefs are truly private. Today’s quote pretty much sums up the attitude of many cultures, secular and religious alike – think and act like I do or you are my enemy. It’s an attitude that sounds no more enlightened for coming from the “enlightened.”

  2. Tony Provenzano Says:

    Happy Blasphemy Day all!

    There once was a planet quite odd,
    Who followed ‘Thy staff and thy rod.’
    They should have chose reason,
    Used logic all seasons,
    It instead chose the worship of God.

  3. The Heretic Says:

    What he is saying is that Religion should be seen and not heard, and rarely seen at that. It should be private. It is the church/people that push their religion into the public sphere, usually aggressively and sometimes violently, that are the enemy. I agree with that.

  4. rbairos Says:

    “..with modern mores, liberal values and secular education.”

    What do they mean liberal values? A value by definition is non-scientific. I find the introduction of this political requirement odd. Perhaps they meant ‘liberal’ as in ‘abundant’ ?

  5. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    Funny how so many atheists insist on a one-size-fits-all “literal” understanding of all things religious while falling all over themselves trying to “interpret” a rather straight forward quote into saying something it doesn’t.

    Tony: I like the poem!

    Heretic: Agreed that people can be violent (for far more than just religious reasons), but you seem to be against hearing anything you don’t agree with. How scientifically enlightened of you.

    rbairos: Good point, ruined by your attempt to make “liberal” mean “abundant” in this context.

    Ya’ll are funny, with only Tony intending to be (successfully).

    You do know you don’t have to agree with everything “secular” just because its secular, any more than I must agree with all things religious just because its religious? Right?

  6. Mr. Syme, Theist Says:

    Tony Pro: you picked up a longer last name since we spoke last. What ever happened to our line of conversation? You were looking to convert men to your position last time we spoke. Are you still the evangel of old Agnosticism under a different name? We must renew our conversation, if you would like. I’m a willing subject for conversion- and I likely deserve it since I work to convert others to the Faith. Now, you must tell the truth here (although you claim not to believe such a category). Do you ever get insanely bored of only talking to people who think exactly like you do? I do. I even changed my residence to move away from such a situation, and I’m revisiting your happy site because I know I can always count on finding an opinion (or two) different from my own.

    God is the only necessary Being existing- whether on this site, the internet, or in the whole of the universe. He is also the only non-contigent Being. He is transcendent, and thus not subject to the supoena of any man- even a very nice man like you, sir. So, why do you find it necessary for God to step under a scientific microscope to finally bow the knee? That is just it, isn’t? None of us bow the knee- even when His existence is put on display before us day after day in all He has created. Been there, defied Him, surpressed the truth, got the T-shirt.

    You mentioned you were celebrating Blasphemy Day- here is a link to some thoughts on the Day. Your thoughts? Let’s talk. Cheers, Syme