“Three words you will never hear a religious person say to their offspring: 'Think for yourself'”
Anon.
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Religous person does not have to say those three words. Every offsprings will automatically think for themselves at almost every instant. Thats what the brain is used for, an instrument to think. I think Anon’s quote is unnecessary.
I`me 47 and have never been in a fight in my life ,never a good enough reason i guess or maybe would just never hit another child of god ,The god you pray to .Now here this how is it that I a non believer in God cannot hurt another human being but yet you have protistants killing catholics and all you believers with all your different Gods killing each other,wich is actually fine with me ,BUT you don`t stop there whats even worse you killed non believer`s to .I wonder if you wher not influinced by the Church you mite think differently .Have you ever heard of a gang of athiests going to battle with another gang of athiests.unbenounced to you ,you keep evil alive by listening to others with out thinking for yourself .If you want to know one of the reasons an athiest is an athiest ,for me anyways, you are to unpredictable and will listen to what anybody tells you and kill for an invisable god .I will say this once againe you`re ignorance scare`s me more than most anything i know Ignoance kill`s ,and if you where a true child of God ,you would already know the difference between right and wrong ,and if not then what are you? Think For Yourself.
You miss the point of the quote completely. Most people develop the ability to think (exceptions being those with brain death or severe brain disorders).
In a religious context one is taught that their particular book contains “the true word of God” and are instructed to accept the interpretaion of this “truth” as directed by the holy institution.
You keep repeating words from your holy book in order to “prove” points in discussion (unsuccessfully) and admonish anyone else for thinking differently from you. This is the point of the quote – “don’t think other than the way ‘the book’ has already been interpreted.”
Forget fundamentalists – those are an unreachable breed. But with a majority of believers, I don’t think it’s as bad as all that. In the recent past, a literal interpretation of the bible was the norm by such a margin that non-literalists don’t need to be considered. Today, in marked contrast, it is the literalists that are in the minority. Maybe 10% could be described as such. That’s a big shift and it occurred, not coincidently, at the same time as the enlightenment and the revolution in scientific thought. Islam, is still pretty young, as these go, so it’ll be a while before moderating forces act on it.
I read somewhere that Albert Einstein was quoted as saying that there are “Only two things that are infinite; the universe is the first and human stupidity the second; and I am not sure about the universe.”
I don’t miss a point, thats what you think. Do you think most believers don’t think, blindly accepting whats in the book?No amounts of reasoning, examples or arguments will keep you all making wild accusations on believers. The key word is to Deny. You will find all sorts of ways to do the sabotage of delivering truth.Thats your main agenda.I’am not going to discuss or entertain
“chicken” stuffs which is repeated over and over. Lets debate on real stuff & be sincere(which I doubt) in discussing it.
Yes, I believe most Muslims don’t question what they are told. Believe and shut your mouth. That is obedience, not thinking.
If you were truly a thinking person you would be questioning your holy book. Anyone would. I did.
But YOU don’t question it – you think it is perfect (from another post). I think you are afraid to ask questions – serious, intelligent questions – because you know you won’t like the answers.
You follow blindly without thinking. You are afraid.
Before you ask the serious, intelligent questions, the holy book have already provide the serious, intelligent answers. It’s only in your dark mind into thinking that humans intelligence surpass other beings.Does’nt the creation of the brain needs more than intelligence. The thinking from the brain comes after the brain have been developed.The creator of the brain knows better how the brain system works, whats its weakness.The power of the brain has its limits.
Don’t depend on your thinking 100%. There are other sources that you can depend upon. You are given the heart to wonder and to reason out with the knowledge told from this holy book.
Its you & your lots that did’nt like & blindly deny after what is revealed in this book.
You are given the heart to wonder and to reason out with
Ah, I think I see where you’re going wrong now. The heart is for pumping blood around. Some guy called William Harvey worked it out in the 17th century. Yep! the brains the only thing to think with, try it, you never know you may find it works for you.
I guess good morning don’t cut it on this site. Well let me make a comment on the above Quote by anon. I never ever had to tell a child of mine
‘think” to them it came natural. There were times when they were young we did a lot for them but we never had to think for them. I guess it depends on the parents, how much freedom you give your children.But the freedom to think is basically out of our control.
Sorry tech! Good morning to you, although it’s afternoon now. I think like ’sol you’ve missd the point a bit. Religious parents do not encourage their children to question the belief system they bring them up in. I don’t think any atheist here would suggest that is true of ALL famillies who bring a child up in a religious tradition, but it is a common enough trait of religion (which hangs on faith after all) to discourage freethought about the truth of its claims.
Does fear,love,hatred comes from your heart or your head.
Now, I’d love to give you the benefit of the doubt due to most people who talk about emotions coming from the “heart”. I would assume they were being metaphorical, but in your case I’m not so sure. It would be more intellectually honest of you to argue such emotions came from the soul, the existence of which we could at least have a philosophical debate about.
I too never have the thought of going into a fight or to hurt a soul even if its a small ant, but that is not just enough to Gods eye.He creates humans with high standards & the same he expects of one.Religion is more stringent in protecting other souls than what you feel youre into now.
The fighting,the killings that you see going around now is the result of human failure to follow gods rules wholly.It could have been worse if religion have’nt play its role in controlling it.
You are blaming straight the believers or religion on these tragedies. Its just a wild accusation.
Atheist MC , Of course they don,t .Why bring a child up to believe a certain way and tell him to question it ,sooner or later he will anyway. Especially if what they are teaching their child, they consider to be right.
One would hope so (or I would anyway) but this would seem to contradict the jesuit principle of “give me a child before the age of seven and I’ll give you the man”. I think a religious upbringing is harder to escape from than your reply suggests. At its worst it make people prone to argument from authority rather than evidence and many ex theists who do find the clear water of disbelief still struggle emotionally with a sense of loss. Atheists on the other hand tend to inculcate their children with a need to question everything, even their own scepticism. I certainly have done this and at least one of my children has rationalised herself into some sort of religious belief (I still try to convince her of the errors of logic she commits to get there, but at least she is there by a process of her own making).
Captain Zero ,Yes question things people tell her. I question everything that don,t sound right. In Thailand they do not cut children hair or label them as boy or girl regardless of gender. They wait till the child is old enough to decide what gender he wants to be like.Kind of strange isn’t it. As long as a my child is brought with good morals and knows right from wrong. That would be my main concern. Religion would have very little to do with it. I know whats right from wrong.So will my children with my help of course.
Old solomon: the great teacher of the truth and the light:
Why sir, when I try to understand the true meaning of your religion am I continuously reading where muhammad was a pedophile and his book is a book of terror. I also understand that apparently diverting from the literal translation of the quran is forbidden. Unless you are practicing al-taqiya and trying to confuse and lull infidels into a sense of “understanding” islam as bring peaceful…
So I was thinking that once I have children I am going to teach them about the 6 foot diamond burried in my backyard. It’s worth a lot of money and it’s right in my backyard…literally. Now, I have never seen the diamond, but I know it is there because it gives me the strength to love and live my life as a good moral person. My kids may ask me “Dad, how do you know there is a diamond in the backyard if you’ve never seen it?” I will tell them that “I have a diamond book that accurately describes how it got there and why it is in my backyard.” Hopefully, this will satisfy their inquiries because anymore questioning of the diamonds existence will put me in a real logical pickle. Sol and Tech, should I let my children question my god- I mean diamond- and taint its power or should I just tell them to read the book?
First of all magic its your story you decide. However I fail to see what kind of comparison you’re trying to make. If its comparing God to that diamond then your going to need a lot more diamonds because my God is far more precious than that. But its your story i,m sure you can come up when some magical answer. I don’t do magic.
Religion, Fundies & literalists all associate themselves with God.But I don’t think God would want to associated with all of them. God said he will have a people, he has yet to give them a name.So lets not get confused here not every religion really knows who God is . They may claim they do but their actions speak louder than their words. All this killing in the world, claimed by some that it is God directed, is it ? Vengeance is mine saith the Lord God Almighty.
“Does’nt the creation of the brain needs more than intelligence.”
No. It needs evolution. This has been proven again and again. Evolution is fact.
“The thinking from the brain comes after the brain have been developed.”
It would be silly to say a brain that doesn’t exist can think.
“The creator of the brain knows better how the brain system works, whats its weakness.”
If the brain has a weakness, then doesn’t this point to a flaw in design? Why should a perfect God create something less than perfect? Or does it show intent on the part of your God to make us somewhat limited (i.e.: retarded) in our ability to think? What would be the point of this?
“Don’t depend on your thinking 100%. There are other sources that you can depend upon.”
This is exactly the point of the quote: “don’t think for yourself – we’ll tell you how to think”. If you want others to control the way you think, fine. Not me. I was raised to think for myself based on the evidence provided. No evidence = no proof = why should I believe you?
“Its you & your lots that did’nt like & blindly deny after what is revealed in this book.”
Very brave of you to accuse those who think for themselves of being blind. Following the “revalations” of a lunatic, now THAT is blindness.
Every time sol makes some crazy bunch of statements we spend days listing his errors, misquotes and the like.
We ask follow up questions to him and they are almost all ignored or answered with quotes from his god book. Why, when we know we will not get a sensible reply, do we continue to hope for a meaningful answer from him?
Are we showing ‘faith’ and waiting for a miracle?
An inordinate amount of effort is wasted trying to reason with someone who is clearly unreasonable. That’s why, a few days ago I declared that I’m not spending any more time responding to his stupidity. I would encourage all others on this site to do the same – just let him bleat his warnings and absurdities to the sky. We’re all well aware that they are meaningless, so let him waste his own time, not ours.
There you are, I scent the conspiracy going on amongst the Atheists lots.They are chickening out after failure in every attempt to convince others of their lousy ideas & by making wild accusations of me which have no concrete basis of argument.
‘Does fear,love,hatred comes from your heart or your head’
Now you mention “soul”. I thought if I’de have mention that word earlier you might have labelled it as non-existent. Surprising in a way you seems like recognizing it.
“Does’nt the creation of the brain needs more than intelligence.”
The quote means there is an intelligent being behind the brains creation.Don’t simply say “NO” the creation of the magnificent brain does’nt need intelligent hands behind it. Even the construction of a simple fountain pen need some sort of intelligence.Don’t simply say its just needs evolution as if its a magic word. Even if you think its through evolution, there must be some processes governing it.Something governing how the process should be & should have been.
“It would be silly to say a brain that doesn’t exist can think.”
Its only your silly thinking that says a brain that does’nt exists can think.
In my quote “The thinking from the brain comes after the brain have been developed” referred to the thinking comes after the construction of this constructed instrument(brain), then how could the thinking itself overrules the instrument that propagates the thinking?
Weakness in brains does’nt mean a weakness in gods design. Nothing that is created can surpass the supremacy of god.Not only the brain, your physical strength is also created with a measured amount of capacity.Your example is just purposely highlighted to degrade God.
I’am not forcing anybody to think my way, even if I want it, it will not be possible, God have mention this fact. The least I could do is to guide the viewers not to be an easy prey to your touting.
I’am not accusing anybody who think for themselves of being blind.This is true. Its god himself who knows what is hidden & what is revealed in the hearts of the disbelievers told this so.Blind in a sense they choose to deny after truth have come to them.
FYI, Mohammad married Aishah when Aishah was at the age of 19.So saying that Mohammad a paedophile was just a wild accusation.That goes the same to the rest of your comments, only WILD ACCUSATIONS that did’nt need to attend to.
Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated that the Prophet (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) married her when she was six years old, and he consummated her in marriage when she was nine years old. Then she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).[2]
Khadijah died three years before the Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) departed to Madina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.[3]
Urwa narrated: The Prophet (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years.[4]
Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.[5]
Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.[6]
You got the wrong version of hadith.There are true and false hadiths. One should learn the discipline of citing hadith from experts, not simply copy it from some sites.
You wrote “Even if you think its through evolution, there must be some processes governing it.Something governing how the process should be & should have been.”
You seem unsure of what this “something” is, but seem satisfied that it’s definitely not natural and not evolution. But if I can assume that you equate “something” with God (as defined in your holy book) then I have one very simple question for you: How can you prove that it is not something else? How do you prove it is not Zeus? Ra? Santa? Ghandalf? The Tooth Fairy? You may think I’m being silly, but this is a serious question.
What you will find is that we both believe in “something”. The only difference is that my “something” can be easily explained using the natural world and your “something” relies exclusively on the supernatural.
Tracy Fitzgerald, thanks for the post. A very interesting read.
My favourite quote: “I can still disagree completely with you, but I don’t deny your humanity.”
Another interesting snippet from the article: “In its deepest sense you can only understand real scripture when you need something, when you need truth of a certain kind and you need help.” This is a fascinating statement and speaks volumes, to me, of the essence of “truth” found in the Bible. It is a “certain kind” of truth, very narrow and very specific. It is not all-encompassing.
One final statement which I whole-heartedly disagree with, however, comes at the end of the article: “Real scripture, though it might on the surface seem contradictory or violent, these things are often symbolic and can only be understood with the heart and the head together. Not just with the head.”
This would be based on how the scripture is interpreted, and I find it arrogant of him to insist that if you interpret it in any other way you are not reading the “real” scripture or interpreting it correctly. This is his personal opinion and bias, perhaps, but not fact. The bible is interpreted in MANY, MANY different ways by MANY, MANY people. Why? Because it was not written clearly enough to be interpreted in one way only.
I mention ’something’ not because I’am not sure, obviously I’am very sure after all this while what I have been sponsoring about. Its only a reserved way of saying that it should be God.
The proof is in the Qoran or the hadith, all being told by god clearly in detail & with proofs & reasoning.
You said your “something” is nature. What actually if someone think of nature? A some sort of being that can muticulously create things?An intelligent brain that could planned any systems that have been going on since eternity?Something that could provide the power that drives massive heavenly bodies?Our brains or our hearts & our senses will surely point out that this something is a very intelligent & very powerfull being, not just something called nature that can planned on its own.
None of the things you are talking about require the existance of an intelligent designer.
You mistakenly believe complexity in the universe requires an intelligent force to design it. Evolution is not magic, but is natural and fully explains the life forms we see around us today – and in the past.
Your statement “Its only a reserved way of saying that it should be God” is very telling. You WANT it to be God. To you it SHOULD be God. The problem is, thinking that it is God does not MAKE it God.
I am agnostic and don’t rule out the existance of a “god”. But to this point in my life there has not been any evidence presented to me to support that claim. And so, I remain, agnostic.
To say nothing requires the involvement of an intelligent designer is a complete denial of sane reasoning. And you can’t even answer what form of entity nature is.Its only some form of escapism to deny the well accepted human thoughts of creationism doctrine.Its just a saying “nature” made up by unbelievers. How can one proove god if he’s comparable to nothing. You won’t recognise him even if he sits in front of your nose.
“To say nothing requires the involvement of an intelligent designer is a complete denial of sane reasoning.”
On the contrary, Solomon, implying that there is something WITHOUT ANY SUPPORTING EVIDENCE is a complete denial of ANY reasoning, sane or otherwise.
“And you can’t even answer what form of entity nature is.”
This question is nonsense. Nature is nature. Nature does not possess “intelligence” in a sentient sense. There is no “intention” in Nature – it is completely indifferent. You have a hard time accepting that there is no evidence to support your claim for intelligent design, and this is understandable. But wishing otherwise does not make it so.
“Its only some form of escapism to deny the well accepted human thoughts of creationism doctrine.”
Creationism is ONLY well-accepted by those who hold dearly to a religious ideology. And even then there are many Christians and Muslims who do not agree with the doctrine of Creationism. Why? Because it has been repeatedly and thoroughly discredited in every way, shape and form. Both in court and outside. There is absolutely not ONE SHRED of evidence to support the claims of creationism. All of your “evidence” comes directly from religious dogma. To continue to insist that it is well-accepted or “true” is a complete denial of reality.
“How can one proove god if he’s comparable to nothing.”
How can one disprove Santa? Ra? Zeus? The Tooth Fairy? Unicorns? Please disprove them, Solomon, and I will believe in your God.
“And who creates the First design? Is it evolution or nature???”
Again, you are hung up on the fact that there MUST be a first designer. Ok, who creates the first designer? What created God? If your answer is that God has always been and will always be, then that is my answer as well. Nature has been and always will be. The only difference is that you are desperate to instill intelligence into your God because you refuse to accept the evidence that points to the fact that there is no intelligent designer and that processes such as evolution can be shown to be responsible for the development of life on Earth.
February 1st, 2010 at 1:46
Religous person does not have to say those three words. Every offsprings will automatically think for themselves at almost every instant. Thats what the brain is used for, an instrument to think. I think Anon’s quote is unnecessary.
February 1st, 2010 at 2:18
I`me 47 and have never been in a fight in my life ,never a good enough reason i guess or maybe would just never hit another child of god ,The god you pray to .Now here this how is it that I a non believer in God cannot hurt another human being but yet you have protistants killing catholics and all you believers with all your different Gods killing each other,wich is actually fine with me ,BUT you don`t stop there whats even worse you killed non believer`s to .I wonder if you wher not influinced by the Church you mite think differently .Have you ever heard of a gang of athiests going to battle with another gang of athiests.unbenounced to you ,you keep evil alive by listening to others with out thinking for yourself .If you want to know one of the reasons an athiest is an athiest ,for me anyways, you are to unpredictable and will listen to what anybody tells you and kill for an invisable god .I will say this once againe you`re ignorance scare`s me more than most anything i know Ignoance kill`s ,and if you where a true child of God ,you would already know the difference between right and wrong ,and if not then what are you? Think For Yourself.
February 1st, 2010 at 2:19
The quote is accurate regarding thoughts of how the universe came to be and how it works.
February 1st, 2010 at 2:22
Solomon
You miss the point of the quote completely. Most people develop the ability to think (exceptions being those with brain death or severe brain disorders).
In a religious context one is taught that their particular book contains “the true word of God” and are instructed to accept the interpretaion of this “truth” as directed by the holy institution.
You keep repeating words from your holy book in order to “prove” points in discussion (unsuccessfully) and admonish anyone else for thinking differently from you. This is the point of the quote – “don’t think other than the way ‘the book’ has already been interpreted.”
Or, more pointedly: “don’t think, just believe.”
February 1st, 2010 at 2:55
Forget fundamentalists – those are an unreachable breed. But with a majority of believers, I don’t think it’s as bad as all that. In the recent past, a literal interpretation of the bible was the norm by such a margin that non-literalists don’t need to be considered. Today, in marked contrast, it is the literalists that are in the minority. Maybe 10% could be described as such. That’s a big shift and it occurred, not coincidently, at the same time as the enlightenment and the revolution in scientific thought. Islam, is still pretty young, as these go, so it’ll be a while before moderating forces act on it.
February 1st, 2010 at 4:30
I read somewhere that Albert Einstein was quoted as saying that there are “Only two things that are infinite; the universe is the first and human stupidity the second; and I am not sure about the universe.”
February 1st, 2010 at 6:13
Dear Mohammed The Prophet(imposter),
I don’t miss a point, thats what you think. Do you think most believers don’t think, blindly accepting whats in the book?No amounts of reasoning, examples or arguments will keep you all making wild accusations on believers. The key word is to Deny. You will find all sorts of ways to do the sabotage of delivering truth.Thats your main agenda.I’am not going to discuss or entertain
“chicken” stuffs which is repeated over and over. Lets debate on real stuff & be sincere(which I doubt) in discussing it.
February 1st, 2010 at 6:18
Dear John,
You would’nt know which group of people the human stupidity Einstein is refering to. It might be you.Thats why youre very sure…..Waaaa…Ka. Ka.. Ka…
February 1st, 2010 at 7:25
Old sol… you won’t see me on my knees 5 times a day regurgitating some old BS written in the Dark Ages.
February 1st, 2010 at 7:38
Solomon
Yes, I believe most Muslims don’t question what they are told. Believe and shut your mouth. That is obedience, not thinking.
If you were truly a thinking person you would be questioning your holy book. Anyone would. I did.
But YOU don’t question it – you think it is perfect (from another post). I think you are afraid to ask questions – serious, intelligent questions – because you know you won’t like the answers.
You follow blindly without thinking. You are afraid.
February 1st, 2010 at 9:52
Dear Mohammed the Prophet(imposter),
Before you ask the serious, intelligent questions, the holy book have already provide the serious, intelligent answers. It’s only in your dark mind into thinking that humans intelligence surpass other beings.Does’nt the creation of the brain needs more than intelligence. The thinking from the brain comes after the brain have been developed.The creator of the brain knows better how the brain system works, whats its weakness.The power of the brain has its limits.
Don’t depend on your thinking 100%. There are other sources that you can depend upon. You are given the heart to wonder and to reason out with the knowledge told from this holy book.
Its you & your lots that did’nt like & blindly deny after what is revealed in this book.
February 1st, 2010 at 12:18
Good morning site, I trust everyone here had a good weekend.
February 1st, 2010 at 13:09
Ah, I think I see where you’re going wrong now. The heart is for pumping blood around. Some guy called William Harvey worked it out in the 17th century. Yep! the brains the only thing to think with, try it, you never know you may find it works for you.
February 1st, 2010 at 14:12
I guess good morning don’t cut it on this site. Well let me make a comment on the above Quote by anon. I never ever had to tell a child of mine
‘think” to them it came natural. There were times when they were young we did a lot for them but we never had to think for them. I guess it depends on the parents, how much freedom you give your children.But the freedom to think is basically out of our control.
February 1st, 2010 at 14:39
Dear Atheist MC,
Thats all you know, the heart is to pump blood.Does fear,love,hatred comes from your heart or your head.Don’t try to bluff others.
February 1st, 2010 at 14:47
Sorry tech! Good morning to you, although it’s afternoon now. I think like ’sol you’ve missd the point a bit. Religious parents do not encourage their children to question the belief system they bring them up in. I don’t think any atheist here would suggest that is true of ALL famillies who bring a child up in a religious tradition, but it is a common enough trait of religion (which hangs on faith after all) to discourage freethought about the truth of its claims.
February 1st, 2010 at 14:52
Now, I’d love to give you the benefit of the doubt due to most people who talk about emotions coming from the “heart”. I would assume they were being metaphorical, but in your case I’m not so sure. It would be more intellectually honest of you to argue such emotions came from the soul, the existence of which we could at least have a philosophical debate about.
February 1st, 2010 at 15:06
Dear Noreflection,
I too never have the thought of going into a fight or to hurt a soul even if its a small ant, but that is not just enough to Gods eye.He creates humans with high standards & the same he expects of one.Religion is more stringent in protecting other souls than what you feel youre into now.
The fighting,the killings that you see going around now is the result of human failure to follow gods rules wholly.It could have been worse if religion have’nt play its role in controlling it.
You are blaming straight the believers or religion on these tragedies. Its just a wild accusation.
February 1st, 2010 at 15:13
Atheist MC , Of course they don,t .Why bring a child up to believe a certain way and tell him to question it ,sooner or later he will anyway. Especially if what they are teaching their child, they consider to be right.
February 1st, 2010 at 16:05
One would hope so (or I would anyway) but this would seem to contradict the jesuit principle of “give me a child before the age of seven and I’ll give you the man”. I think a religious upbringing is harder to escape from than your reply suggests. At its worst it make people prone to argument from authority rather than evidence and many ex theists who do find the clear water of disbelief still struggle emotionally with a sense of loss. Atheists on the other hand tend to inculcate their children with a need to question everything, even their own scepticism. I certainly have done this and at least one of my children has rationalised herself into some sort of religious belief (I still try to convince her of the errors of logic she commits to get there, but at least she is there by a process of her own making).
February 1st, 2010 at 16:14
I, for one, am teaching my daughter that she should question things people tell her.
February 1st, 2010 at 16:41
Captain Zero ,Yes question things people tell her. I question everything that don,t sound right. In Thailand they do not cut children hair or label them as boy or girl regardless of gender. They wait till the child is old enough to decide what gender he wants to be like.Kind of strange isn’t it. As long as a my child is brought with good morals and knows right from wrong. That would be my main concern. Religion would have very little to do with it. I know whats right from wrong.So will my children with my help of course.
February 1st, 2010 at 17:08
Old solomon: the great teacher of the truth and the light:
Why sir, when I try to understand the true meaning of your religion am I continuously reading where muhammad was a pedophile and his book is a book of terror. I also understand that apparently diverting from the literal translation of the quran is forbidden. Unless you are practicing al-taqiya and trying to confuse and lull infidels into a sense of “understanding” islam as bring peaceful…
‘Think for yourself’” Man!!!
February 1st, 2010 at 17:28
One has no other option when it comes to Zen
February 1st, 2010 at 17:44
So I was thinking that once I have children I am going to teach them about the 6 foot diamond burried in my backyard. It’s worth a lot of money and it’s right in my backyard…literally. Now, I have never seen the diamond, but I know it is there because it gives me the strength to love and live my life as a good moral person. My kids may ask me “Dad, how do you know there is a diamond in the backyard if you’ve never seen it?” I will tell them that “I have a diamond book that accurately describes how it got there and why it is in my backyard.” Hopefully, this will satisfy their inquiries because anymore questioning of the diamonds existence will put me in a real logical pickle. Sol and Tech, should I let my children question my god- I mean diamond- and taint its power or should I just tell them to read the book?
February 1st, 2010 at 18:10
First of all magic its your story you decide. However I fail to see what kind of comparison you’re trying to make. If its comparing God to that diamond then your going to need a lot more diamonds because my God is far more precious than that. But its your story i,m sure you can come up when some magical answer. I don’t do magic.
February 1st, 2010 at 18:32
FYI, Jacob Needleman on going from atheism to theism: http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/religionandtheology/2227/how_does_an_atheist_come_to_believe_in_god%3A_an_interview_with_jacob_needleman
February 1st, 2010 at 18:36
BTW, the quote betrays a veiw of religion that is as shallow as that of the fundies/literalists.
February 1st, 2010 at 18:48
Tracy,which quote?
February 1st, 2010 at 19:00
Religion, Fundies & literalists all associate themselves with God.But I don’t think God would want to associated with all of them. God said he will have a people, he has yet to give them a name.So lets not get confused here not every religion really knows who God is . They may claim they do but their actions speak louder than their words. All this killing in the world, claimed by some that it is God directed, is it ? Vengeance is mine saith the Lord God Almighty.
February 1st, 2010 at 21:21
Vengeance? Why would a kind, caring and forgiving god need such a hideous thing?
February 1st, 2010 at 21:55
Its Gods way of telling his people not to take revenge on innocent people or the guilty. Hes the judge and jury,not us.
February 1st, 2010 at 22:15
Tell that to the poor folks that over the years have defied the church and its human commanders.
February 1st, 2010 at 22:29
You didn’t answer the question. Why does a god need such a hideous thing.
February 1st, 2010 at 23:02
Solomon,
“Does’nt the creation of the brain needs more than intelligence.”
No. It needs evolution. This has been proven again and again. Evolution is fact.
“The thinking from the brain comes after the brain have been developed.”
It would be silly to say a brain that doesn’t exist can think.
“The creator of the brain knows better how the brain system works, whats its weakness.”
If the brain has a weakness, then doesn’t this point to a flaw in design? Why should a perfect God create something less than perfect? Or does it show intent on the part of your God to make us somewhat limited (i.e.: retarded) in our ability to think? What would be the point of this?
“Don’t depend on your thinking 100%. There are other sources that you can depend upon.”
This is exactly the point of the quote: “don’t think for yourself – we’ll tell you how to think”. If you want others to control the way you think, fine. Not me. I was raised to think for myself based on the evidence provided. No evidence = no proof = why should I believe you?
“Its you & your lots that did’nt like & blindly deny after what is revealed in this book.”
Very brave of you to accuse those who think for themselves of being blind. Following the “revalations” of a lunatic, now THAT is blindness.
Sincerely,
Mohammed. I like small boys, etc, etc.
February 1st, 2010 at 23:45
Every time sol makes some crazy bunch of statements we spend days listing his errors, misquotes and the like.
We ask follow up questions to him and they are almost all ignored or answered with quotes from his god book. Why, when we know we will not get a sensible reply, do we continue to hope for a meaningful answer from him?
Are we showing ‘faith’ and waiting for a miracle?
February 2nd, 2010 at 0:03
tony, I couldn’t agree more.
An inordinate amount of effort is wasted trying to reason with someone who is clearly unreasonable. That’s why, a few days ago I declared that I’m not spending any more time responding to his stupidity. I would encourage all others on this site to do the same – just let him bleat his warnings and absurdities to the sky. We’re all well aware that they are meaningless, so let him waste his own time, not ours.
February 2nd, 2010 at 4:06
There you are, I scent the conspiracy going on amongst the Atheists lots.They are chickening out after failure in every attempt to convince others of their lousy ideas & by making wild accusations of me which have no concrete basis of argument.
February 2nd, 2010 at 4:17
Dear Atheist MC,
‘Does fear,love,hatred comes from your heart or your head’
Now you mention “soul”. I thought if I’de have mention that word earlier you might have labelled it as non-existent. Surprising in a way you seems like recognizing it.
February 2nd, 2010 at 5:36
Dear Mohammed the Prophet(imposter),
“Does’nt the creation of the brain needs more than intelligence.”
The quote means there is an intelligent being behind the brains creation.Don’t simply say “NO” the creation of the magnificent brain does’nt need intelligent hands behind it. Even the construction of a simple fountain pen need some sort of intelligence.Don’t simply say its just needs evolution as if its a magic word. Even if you think its through evolution, there must be some processes governing it.Something governing how the process should be & should have been.
“It would be silly to say a brain that doesn’t exist can think.”
Its only your silly thinking that says a brain that does’nt exists can think.
In my quote “The thinking from the brain comes after the brain have been developed” referred to the thinking comes after the construction of this constructed instrument(brain), then how could the thinking itself overrules the instrument that propagates the thinking?
Weakness in brains does’nt mean a weakness in gods design. Nothing that is created can surpass the supremacy of god.Not only the brain, your physical strength is also created with a measured amount of capacity.Your example is just purposely highlighted to degrade God.
I’am not forcing anybody to think my way, even if I want it, it will not be possible, God have mention this fact. The least I could do is to guide the viewers not to be an easy prey to your touting.
I’am not accusing anybody who think for themselves of being blind.This is true. Its god himself who knows what is hidden & what is revealed in the hearts of the disbelievers told this so.Blind in a sense they choose to deny after truth have come to them.
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:31
Dear John,
FYI, Mohammad married Aishah when Aishah was at the age of 19.So saying that Mohammad a paedophile was just a wild accusation.That goes the same to the rest of your comments, only WILD ACCUSATIONS that did’nt need to attend to.
February 2nd, 2010 at 16:05
Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated that the Prophet (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) married her when she was six years old, and he consummated her in marriage when she was nine years old. Then she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).[2]
Khadijah died three years before the Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) departed to Madina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.[3]
Urwa narrated: The Prophet (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years.[4]
Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.[5]
Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.[6]
February 2nd, 2010 at 16:39
Dear John,
You got the wrong version of hadith.There are true and false hadiths. One should learn the discipline of citing hadith from experts, not simply copy it from some sites.
February 2nd, 2010 at 23:19
Solomon
You wrote “Even if you think its through evolution, there must be some processes governing it.Something governing how the process should be & should have been.”
You seem unsure of what this “something” is, but seem satisfied that it’s definitely not natural and not evolution. But if I can assume that you equate “something” with God (as defined in your holy book) then I have one very simple question for you: How can you prove that it is not something else? How do you prove it is not Zeus? Ra? Santa? Ghandalf? The Tooth Fairy? You may think I’m being silly, but this is a serious question.
What you will find is that we both believe in “something”. The only difference is that my “something” can be easily explained using the natural world and your “something” relies exclusively on the supernatural.
February 3rd, 2010 at 0:02
Tracy Fitzgerald, thanks for the post. A very interesting read.
My favourite quote: “I can still disagree completely with you, but I don’t deny your humanity.”
Another interesting snippet from the article: “In its deepest sense you can only understand real scripture when you need something, when you need truth of a certain kind and you need help.” This is a fascinating statement and speaks volumes, to me, of the essence of “truth” found in the Bible. It is a “certain kind” of truth, very narrow and very specific. It is not all-encompassing.
One final statement which I whole-heartedly disagree with, however, comes at the end of the article: “Real scripture, though it might on the surface seem contradictory or violent, these things are often symbolic and can only be understood with the heart and the head together. Not just with the head.”
This would be based on how the scripture is interpreted, and I find it arrogant of him to insist that if you interpret it in any other way you are not reading the “real” scripture or interpreting it correctly. This is his personal opinion and bias, perhaps, but not fact. The bible is interpreted in MANY, MANY different ways by MANY, MANY people. Why? Because it was not written clearly enough to be interpreted in one way only.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:52
Dear Mohammed the Prophet(imposter),
I mention ’something’ not because I’am not sure, obviously I’am very sure after all this while what I have been sponsoring about. Its only a reserved way of saying that it should be God.
The proof is in the Qoran or the hadith, all being told by god clearly in detail & with proofs & reasoning.
You said your “something” is nature. What actually if someone think of nature? A some sort of being that can muticulously create things?An intelligent brain that could planned any systems that have been going on since eternity?Something that could provide the power that drives massive heavenly bodies?Our brains or our hearts & our senses will surely point out that this something is a very intelligent & very powerfull being, not just something called nature that can planned on its own.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:58
Solomon
None of the things you are talking about require the existance of an intelligent designer.
You mistakenly believe complexity in the universe requires an intelligent force to design it. Evolution is not magic, but is natural and fully explains the life forms we see around us today – and in the past.
Your statement “Its only a reserved way of saying that it should be God” is very telling. You WANT it to be God. To you it SHOULD be God. The problem is, thinking that it is God does not MAKE it God.
I am agnostic and don’t rule out the existance of a “god”. But to this point in my life there has not been any evidence presented to me to support that claim. And so, I remain, agnostic.
Sincerely
Mohammed. Praise be to me, etc.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:38
Dear Mohammed the Prophet(imposter),
To say nothing requires the involvement of an intelligent designer is a complete denial of sane reasoning. And you can’t even answer what form of entity nature is.Its only some form of escapism to deny the well accepted human thoughts of creationism doctrine.Its just a saying “nature” made up by unbelievers. How can one proove god if he’s comparable to nothing. You won’t recognise him even if he sits in front of your nose.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:43
And who creates the First design? Is it evolution or nature???
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:17
It was santa!
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:30
Dear John,
Maybe your typing error…I thought youre gonne write…It was satan!
February 3rd, 2010 at 22:36
Solomon
“To say nothing requires the involvement of an intelligent designer is a complete denial of sane reasoning.”
On the contrary, Solomon, implying that there is something WITHOUT ANY SUPPORTING EVIDENCE is a complete denial of ANY reasoning, sane or otherwise.
“And you can’t even answer what form of entity nature is.”
This question is nonsense. Nature is nature. Nature does not possess “intelligence” in a sentient sense. There is no “intention” in Nature – it is completely indifferent. You have a hard time accepting that there is no evidence to support your claim for intelligent design, and this is understandable. But wishing otherwise does not make it so.
“Its only some form of escapism to deny the well accepted human thoughts of creationism doctrine.”
Creationism is ONLY well-accepted by those who hold dearly to a religious ideology. And even then there are many Christians and Muslims who do not agree with the doctrine of Creationism. Why? Because it has been repeatedly and thoroughly discredited in every way, shape and form. Both in court and outside. There is absolutely not ONE SHRED of evidence to support the claims of creationism. All of your “evidence” comes directly from religious dogma. To continue to insist that it is well-accepted or “true” is a complete denial of reality.
“How can one proove god if he’s comparable to nothing.”
How can one disprove Santa? Ra? Zeus? The Tooth Fairy? Unicorns? Please disprove them, Solomon, and I will believe in your God.
“And who creates the First design? Is it evolution or nature???”
Again, you are hung up on the fact that there MUST be a first designer. Ok, who creates the first designer? What created God? If your answer is that God has always been and will always be, then that is my answer as well. Nature has been and always will be. The only difference is that you are desperate to instill intelligence into your God because you refuse to accept the evidence that points to the fact that there is no intelligent designer and that processes such as evolution can be shown to be responsible for the development of life on Earth.