31st January 2010

“There is a big difference between making allowance for personal conscience and taking taxpayers money and public contracts for schools and services while maintaining a 'right' to select and discriminate.”

Simon Barrow

11 Responses to “31st January 2010”

  1. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    Hey Tech – Yes I’ve heard the term paradigm shift and understand its meaning. Why do you ask? Are you suggesting I’m in need of one?

    To the point made in the quote – I believe this is a growing problem in the U.K., that is, faith schools being run with public money also asserting that they have a right to discriminate in favor of the right ideology or in one case, genes. A very recent case I heard about was of a Jewish school not wanting to teach a Jewish child because the kid’s mother isn’t Jewish and as we know, Jewishness is transmitted via the birth canal.

  2. Greg Says:

    We see this in Canada. A teacher in Alberta was recently fired from his teaching position in a Catholic school simply for being homosexual.

    That’s a great way to teach children how to be tolerant, isn’t it?

  3. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    I guess the question is, does the school receive public funds? If not, I support their right to do what they want, even stupid bigoted stuff like this. So long as they meet the teaching standards set by the state. Generally, religious institutions can’t be relied on to teach tolerance, especially toward gays.

  4. Bornagain A. Theist Says:

    Thank you, John. I’m glad you enjoyed the reference. I appreciate the link that you provided, too, yesterday, which is more complete.

    Here -> video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197

    Today’s topic is certainly one of importance and significance.

    I have a problem with private schools as they exist. No matter whose philosophy – be it Catholic, Jewish, Christian, Muslim or Atheist – it seems to me that privatization of education allows and even encourages the manipulation of young minds. This disallows the youngsters to formulate opinions on their own and in essence “brainwashes” them.

    I do not want for any system to “create” a young Buddhist or a young Shinto child, as an example.

    Because I am an atheist, you might expect that I would condone a child being “taught” that atheism is the “right” way. That is not what I want for children or adults. I want ever person, young and old to either be taught to or to look at the evidence that exists in this world and make up their own mind – based on the evidence!!!

    The greatest thing for a child to have is parents who are able to covey the idea of honesty, dignity, honor and respect to their children. With these qualities imbued, young people will not look at a persons skin color, sexual orientation or religion as a “measure of a man”. It doesn’t get much better than that.


    I worry, CZ, that some of the teaching standard set by the states may allow the teaching of creationism, which IS manipulation of young minds. There is, as you know, no actual controversy over the proper teaching of evolutionary biology. It simply is – therefore, I can’t support the teaching of “stupid bigoted stuff” no matter how they are funded.

  5. Greg Says:

    Hi CapZ

    All schools – public or private – operate under the Canadian Charter of Righs and Freedoms. They do operate on public taxes, but I’m not 100% certain of the details.

    Regardless, because of religion “freedom” they are allowed to descriminate based on their twisted sense of morality.

    I disagree with it because it teaches children bigotry and intolerance. What happened to the teaching of brotherhood and love?

  6. Greg Says:

    Hi all

    Just a general question for the Christians on the site (Oxy and tech, I suppose?).

    Do you believe that the idea of a virgin birth, burial in a rock tomb, resurrection after 3 days or eating of body and drinking of blood were unique to the story of Jesus and/or Christianity?

    Hope everyone’s having a great weekend.

  7. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    That’s an unfortunate situation, Greg. Public support for religious education ought not be allowed. Here is the U.S. they can’t get away with it but the right has been trying for years to slip one through the goal posts with what they call “vouchers”.

    There are some many schools here that simply fail to educate. The right says the way to fix it is allow market forces to decide which schools close and which grow. To do this, you give funding vouchers to the parents and they decide to which school they will send little Johnny. This could actually work, but the proponents explicitly include parochial schools. So, wait just a goddamn minute! I’ll not have public school funds given to a madrassa.

    I’m with you that i’d prefer no school be allowed to inculcate kids with religious dogma. Save it for college in a well rounded survey of world religions class. There’s still Sunday school for parents to warp their kids so I don’t see why they need to do it during the regular school week.

    That said, I’m also a believer in the freedoms of speech and expression. So as long as a school doesn’t get a drop of public support, I have no choice but to shut up about it. The trouble with this is…all churches in the U.S. DO receive public support through a very valuable freedom from taxes. This needs to stop.

  8. John Says:

    I have paraphrased here because of space.

    “The parents of two third-graders have sued the St. Johns County School Board over a religious-themed song their teacher planned to have their class sing at an end-of-year program. Teaching the song, “In God We Still Trust,” by country group Diamond Rio amounts to religious indoctrination and interferes with the parents’ right to raise their children according to their own beliefs, the lawsuit says. The song speaks of God’s place in American history and urges followers to stand against attempts to secularize society. “It’s a song that preaches a particular religious point of view,” said attorney Gray Thomas. Thomas filed the lawsuit March 17, about a month after the students’ third-grade class at the Webster School in St. Augustine Florida began practicing it and other songs for a year-end assembly. The students’ teacher told them March 11 that anyone who objected to the song would no longer be required to practice it but would be excluded from the entire performance.”


  9. Greg Says:

    That’s a sad situation, John. Unfortunately there are teachers who try to promote their personal religious agenda and either ignore or are blind to the inappropriateness of introducing religious material into the public classroom. They feel they’re dong “God’s work” by promoting their beliefs, but are actually breaking the public trust. In my opinion they should be fined and/or fired from their positions.

    I you want religious instruction, go to church. It’s not like you can’t find a few in any neighborhood….unfortunately.

  10. tony cynic Says:

    John, Read the article, intresting.
    Read the comments, scary. Is it realy like that in your country?
    Not healthy minds out there.

  11. John Says:

    Yes Tony Cynic, the church and the evil it does is too much with us and we much always be mindful.