3rd February 2010

“The clergy believe that any power confided in me will be exerted in opposition to their schemes, and they believe rightly.”

Thomas Jefferson1743 – 1826

24 Responses to “3rd February 2010”

  1. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    There is a nice list of further comments President Jefferson made regarding religion and government here:


    Here’s one for Oxy and Tech:

    “The Christian religion, when divested of the rags in which they [the clergy] have enveloped it, and brought to the original purity and simplicity of it’s benevolent institutor, is a religion of all others most friendly to liberty, science, and the freest expansion of the human mind.” –Thomas Jefferson to Moses Robinson, 1801. ME 10:237

  2. Bornagain A. Theist Says:

    Jefferson was one of the greatest of our early leaders. Thank you CZ for an excellent array of material with which we or anyone rational may easily dispel the absurd proposition that the United States is a “Christian Nation”.

    I discovered a tidbit that may be off topic (as if that’s something new…) but is a clear example of evolution in action to an intelligent and supple mind. For those that have been poisoned by religion, we can only hope. This is a truly beautiful thing to see which has nothing to do with any sort of supernatural being or event.



  3. Holysmokes Says:

    The man was a revolutionist, in more ways than one.

  4. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    Great quote from a great thinker.

    Thanks for the bonus quote, Cap’n!

    BAT, those who push the “USA is a Christian nation” are indeed absurd. And thanks for the link. Of course, being a theist I think some “sort of supernatural being” had something to do with it :-). But it is a beautiful example of evolution’s power to shape life.

    Fun site for discerning atheists and theists alike:

  5. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    The scientifically established true color of dinosaurs revealed! Great article and pics from NatGeo:


    Deny evolution if you like, but your only option now is to stand firm on the smoldering ruins of your – wait for it – god-given intellect. Foolish primate! You know who you are.

  6. solomon Says:

    So what, it has nothing to do to refute the reputable creationism doctrine.

  7. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    Change “reputable” to “refutable” – come on, its easy, we’re only talkin’ one letter – and you would almost have a valid point, silly primate.

  8. tech Says:

    I’ve been asked time and time again, what religion are you? My answer as always is this :I try to treat all mankind with respect. Do good when possible.By this I mean, give to the needy,help a neighbor etc.Be honest especially with yourself.Inflect pain on no one.Never speak unkind words about anyone.Don’t cheat and so on and so forth. Now you tell me what Religion I am.

  9. CaptainZero1969 Says:


  10. tech Says:

    Good answer captain lol But I honestly have no label only what people label me.I only have one mentor. You know whats coming next His name is Jesus.

  11. solomon Says:

    The intoxicated Trio gettin’ refuge by consuming liquor to temporarily get away from bombardment of doctrine thoughts they can’t refute.
    Waaaa… kah…. kah…. kah…..

  12. solomon Says:

    Sorry wrong laugh..!


  13. John Says:

    Tech, maybe be are a human being.

  14. John Says:

    Sorry… I miss posted. First time I have ever miswritten in my life. Won’t let it happen a gain. Don’t you know!

    It should read: Tech, maybe you are a human being?

  15. tech Says:

    Wait a second John ouch! I just pinched myself. checked my temp 96.8. Yea I guess I’m human. LOL

  16. Holysmokes Says:


    Perhaps we can help you figure which religion you are. We know that your savior is Jesus. The only significance place his name is mentioned is in biblical books. If memory serves, I believe the bible was put together by Eastern Orthodox Christians roughly 1700 years ago. So I guess we can narrow down your religion a bit and state that you are at least clumped in with other Christians. Would you agree?

    Perhaps we can be more specific, if you let us know which version of the bible you prefer and which church, if any that you attend. No, this is not some trap I’m setting you up for. The only intent is to help you narrow down the possibilities. So far I think we have you down to under roughly 10,000 possible Christian groups.

  17. tech Says:

    Cool 10,000 Thats close enough for me.Wow I’m not alone. Do you belong to a group that big?Jesus has many followers the sad part is that many are following Him afar of.I have no religion as such as for a church, my fellow believers make the church. A building without believers would be just that a building.However you will only find me in a church that preaches the Full Gospel. As for the good book the King James is my favorite.

  18. Oxymoronic Christhinker Says:

    Can’t remember where I read it (I’ll do the research), but I recall one estimate that put the number of Christianities worldwide at about 25,000 with about 9,000 in the USA alone! As far as how large a group atheists are, well, my guess off the top of my head is “not as large as Christians but bigger than you think.” Also, defining atheists as a group is a little harder than defining Christians, I think. As I’ve said before, I have a good friend who self-identifies as an “agnostic Christian.” What group does he belong in?

  19. Holysmokes Says:

    Stating that Atheists are in a group is a little like a group of non-boaters forming in the middle of the Sahara.

    Let’s see, you have no physical church. You like the King James. I’m guessing that we can likely snatch all the Catholic religions away. That primarily leaves Protestant. So far my early guess is Baptist, but let’s check you and your fellow church members political views on the following. What is your opinion on:
    1. Abortion?
    2. Gays in the military?
    3. Women in the military?
    4. Women as clergy?
    5. The Holocaust? Real or imagined?
    6. The KKK?
    7. Making churches pay real estate tax?
    8. What to do with clergy pedophiles?
    9. Do you sing hymns when you get together?
    10. Dinosaurs, real or made up?

    This is the first grouping of ten questions. More to follow.

    Oxy: Just for the fun of it, I Googled your question. Very little came up in the way of a group name, other than “Agnostic.” People state they were a Christian, but are now agnostic, but not both at once. Your friend should start his own para-religion. lol

  20. tech Says:

    Holy smoke to answer your questions.Abortion- if the mother life is in danger and she wants an abortion it should be her right to decide. Gays in the military, if they want to be there and fight for their country its ok with me.Women in the military, by all means yes.Women in clergy why not?The Holocaust I’m not 100% sure.The KKK there is no room in this world for that kind of actions by those people.They are definitely misguided. Making churches pay real estate taxes probably a good idea but its not considered a business.Clergy pedophiles should get twice the sentence an ordinary person would get, because they were put in a place of trust. Yes we sing hymns when we get together.Dinosaurs i’m not sure of that one either.

  21. The Heretic Says:

    Holysmokes, you do yourself the disservice of confusing political ideology with religion. Although two do (unfortunately) intertwine occasionally, they should not. Religious groups try to co-opt it for political clout. But, philosophically, the two are separate and should be treated as such. That would be like supposing that all atheists are bleeding heart liberals with no ability to find their asses with both hands. Clearly that is not so.

  22. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    Since atheists as a group tend to be well educated (myself excepted), we prefer to find our asses by inferring its position based on gravitational wobble.

  23. Holysmokes Says:


    I agree with most of your comments, however like it or not, religious groups are severely intertwined with politics. Yes, I find it distasteful as well, however it is a fact. For example; I have several relatives who ALWAYS vote the way their brothers and sisters within their churches vote. As long as political issues are with us, the religious will attempt to force their wills at the voting booths. Local and national politicians will always have to take their views into consideration to increase their chance of winning. I am simply accepting the facts.


    I must say, most of your answers are quite impressive. I will have to rule out the Baptist religion. That should narrow the search down by a few hundred. Heck, who knows, maybe you have your very own splinter group. What would you like to call it?

    How about the “Anti-ka ka ka Kristianites?” That should give Solomon a little heartburn. lol

  24. Greg Says:

    Hi tech,

    As Holysmokes said, I’m quite impressed with your answers to his questions and have to honestly say that I was expecting something completely different. See, we actually CAN agree on some things!!

    Just curious on your responses to the Holocaust and Dinosaurs. I can kinda understand the Dinosaur stance if you believe in young earth creationism, but holocaust denial? I’m a little surprised and would be interested to know why you’re on the fence with that one? Can you elaborate?

    Cheers everyone. Good stuff goin’ on today. Hope the hangovers aren’t too bad.