4th February 2010
“It makes no sense that a god could create a human being and then take all the credit for its achievements but accept none of the responsibilities for its shortcomings.”
Anon.
“It makes no sense that a god could create a human being and then take all the credit for its achievements but accept none of the responsibilities for its shortcomings.”
Anon.
February 4th, 2010 at 1:23
This quote makes a darn good point. I thought we were supposed to hang the shortcomings on the devil? One super mythical being gets all the credit, the other gets all the blame. It’s a bit like a stand-in for a famous actor when the scene becomes too dangerous.
February 4th, 2010 at 2:27
This is the problem with an all-powerful being. It is the omnipotence paradox. If god has every power then he has the power to be “ungodly” as it were. Not only can God make a rock so heavy that he cannot move it–rendering him powerless–but he is by definition responsible for EVERYTHING’s creation. Devil, cancer, Hitler. Either god is always moral or he is not. Either god creates everything or he does not. To have every responsibility is impossible, like the existence of a celestial dictator responsible for the achievements of heroes and villains.
February 4th, 2010 at 6:32
God is a creation of the human mind only. There is absolutely no proof that our fellow inhabitants of Earth believe in any kind of a god.
February 4th, 2010 at 7:41
The quote makes a good point, more of a question really, but Anon. is apparently unaware that much of Christology (theology concerned with the implications of Jesus’ death on the cross and subsequent resurrection) is, in part, expressed as action taken by God to deal with the “short-comings” of his creatures. True, God is not blamed, but this is because God is understood to have created “living beings” with free will, not automatons. Furthermore, various passages in the Bible inarguably see God as the creator of EVERYTHING, including evil; this biblical notion sits quite uncomfortably next to notions of God’s mercy, love, and justice within its pages (see the book of Job, for example). All of this (and more) creates serious philosophical problems for honest theologians, one of which MagicAintReal points out above (God’s supposed omnipotence, etc…). Science, specifically the theory of evolution, throws a huge theological wrench into the machinery by challenging the very basis for Christian understandings of free will and sin. For example, those honest theologians know that Augustine’s weirdly quasi-genetic doctrine of “original sin” just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny in the light of science’s understanding of our evolved nature. Of course, I exclude the weak and “believe it or else” theologians of the fundies, literalists, and wing-nut conservatives from the category of “honest theologians” (to say nothing of Islam).
I understand, of course, that most here don’t accept the premise in the first place, but given the premise, the who, what, when, why, and how of God taking responsibility for his creation is what Christology attempts to deal with. Its conclusions are forever provisional and subject to revision.
February 4th, 2010 at 8:35
Liberal, American born, Irish Catholic convert to Islam, punk rocker: Is this he future of Islam?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/28/us/28iht-letter.html?emc=tnt&tntemail1=y
Huh?
February 4th, 2010 at 8:58
“I understand, of course, that most here don’t accept the premise in the first place.”
Indeed. In light of the fact that there were no original sinners, the doctrine of original sin is quite silly. But let’s allow that there was an Adam and Eve. Would a god that holds all mankind responsible for their falling into a trap of his devising be worthy of anyone’s worship? I say the worship of such a tyrant would itself be immoral. This whole enterprise of trying to gerrymander ones thinking around the idiosyncrasies of dusty books strikes me as a waste of time.
As for the unfortunate Muhammad Knight, they’ll kill him if they get the chance.
g’night! kah kah kah.
February 4th, 2010 at 12:57
God created human beings,he gave them a free will.What they did with that free will was left for them to decide. As humans we all have our short comings. To be perfect would put us on the same level as God.This stuff is pretty deep, sometimes I think I understand more times I don’t. There are questions than answers thats for sure.
February 4th, 2010 at 13:34
Sin is nothing more than a personal opinion and the same can be said for morals. Human beings assign tags to actions. If I kill someone, is it a sin? If I kill someone to prevent that person from taking the life of an innocent child, is that still a sin? Are they looked upon equally? Are they the same morally? Everyone has an opinion which can be debated into eternity.
Personally I fail see any original sin by Adam and Eve, if real. They did nothing more than their programmer implanted into them. If he made them in his own image, as the good book says, then he is imperfect because in his eyes, they are imperfect by commiting this sin.
February 4th, 2010 at 14:23
Sorry my first post of the day and a mistake is made. It should read: There are more questions than answers.
February 4th, 2010 at 14:27
Holy smokes on planet earth we have the courts and judges for the crimes you mentioned.However God is God, he is the Almighty. I for one, question Him not.
February 4th, 2010 at 14:31
Tech,
Is questioning god a sin? Do you refrain from doing so out of fear? Any argument about him being perfect has bee effectively shot down, so calling him the “all mighty” seems a bit premature. Why not question him/her/it?
February 4th, 2010 at 14:41
Holy smoke If you feel the need to question Him fine. Call him her or it if you like.But me Me holy smoke He is my God Almighty.Whether you believe it or not, it changes nothing for me.
February 4th, 2010 at 14:55
Hey.. Hoo all Atheists..
Thats the spirit on the unbelievers. When someone sponsor the wrong path they quickly joint & supports them but if someone sponsor the true path they quickly joint together to deny & make a mockery of it.
Its fortunate that god have created you all to be a human, to live a decent life. What about if god make you into a bacteria, where you swim day & night in a piece of shit. Yes the intoxicated trio & Anon swims in a piece of shit.Or suddenly somebody boils a cup of water. Billions of your bacteria population will be boiled in a flash. After all what God have granted to human beings only a few of them knows how to be thankful. All God ask for is just to follow some of his simple rules for the benefit of the human life itself.
All the Atheists know is to blame God for what bad deeds they have commit with their own hands.
February 4th, 2010 at 15:43
ka ka krazy…
February 4th, 2010 at 15:50
Solomon = http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/f/f1/Trollface_HD.jpg
Seriously – why do you hang out at an atheist message board? Is it just to troll us and get responses?
February 4th, 2010 at 15:57
Talnoy , I’m here to tell you there is a God. What would you guys talk about if you never had what you consider to be a challenging thought.
February 4th, 2010 at 16:09
Interesting quote. I came to that thought myself even before I really started doubting in ernest. If God gets all the “glory” for the good that we do, why doesn’t he take equal share in the blame for the bad things? Didn’t quite seem fair to me.
February 4th, 2010 at 16:27
Mikel,
It’s a pity that the humans who wrote the bible nver took that sort of thing into consideration. How could they when it was done so piecemeal? Of course the people who sandwiched it together, (several hundred years later), should have taken steps to correct that flaw.
February 4th, 2010 at 16:55
Dear old solomon: The great teacher of islam; keeper of the truth and the light; believer in the “book of terror”; one whom is forbidden to and thus never allowed to divert from the literal translation of the quran under punishable by death:
Dear Sir: Why does your great religion teach you to “al-taqiya”? I am confused as it means to confuse and lull infidels into a false sense of “understanding” that islam is a peaceful sort of cult?
Praise be to the US Dollar
February 4th, 2010 at 17:01
Tech, did god create love?
Because you said “God created human beings,he gave them a free will.What they did with that free will was left for them to decide.”
So is it possible that love comes from our free will (not god’s responsibility)?
February 4th, 2010 at 17:25
Now as to the above Quote:
Is it as if the preachers, when they spew out their spiel about how great their god is forget the flaws and say “do as we say, not do as we do”. Sort of like a safe cigarettes or clean coal technology?
February 4th, 2010 at 17:38
One of the best quotes ever posted. Believers have to ask themselves WHY god has put us here. He creates life – gives that life free will and then…. nothing!
As a parent you love your children deeply and will care and educate them to the best of your ability.
As we are all apparently gods children then he is a terrible parent. He creates life and then simply abandons it. Why would he bother?
The simplest answer is that god doesn’t exist.
February 4th, 2010 at 18:34
PEB
Yup, the simpliest answer is usually the correct one.
February 4th, 2010 at 18:37
Talnoy
The answer to your question re: Solomon is a resounding YES. Most of us have chosen to ignore him.
February 4th, 2010 at 18:40
PEB, Do you always answer your own questions? God doesn’t exist in a lot of people minds ,here on this site for sure.
February 4th, 2010 at 18:45
Truer words where never spoken, tech. “God doesn’t exist in a lot of people minds ,here on this site for sure.”
February 4th, 2010 at 18:58
Sorry, the first link was wrong/changed.
http://www.youtube.com/EpochOfReason#p/a/f/0/VdtwTeBPYQA
or search “Atheist nations are more peaceful” on youtube
February 4th, 2010 at 19:08
So why don’t atheists believe in a god or gods? Well, I can only speak for myself, but I simply see no reason to believe. I see no evidence, no way to investigate, no methods for science to study. No miracles, no magic, no hocus pocus, no evidence of afterlife, no evidence of before life and no evidence of miracles. Nothing to indicate that once we die, we don’t simply cease to exist. Nothing, nil, nottah. I’m still looking for that one tiny thread to give me a sign ….and make me think twice. Come on Zeus, Apollo, Allah, Prometheus, Yeshua, Ell etc. Can’t any of you slack-jawed gods give us a sign? Don’t make me come up there!
February 4th, 2010 at 19:15
Well John just because he don,t exist in a persons mind, it doesn’t mean he don’t exist. In my mind I know He exists. I can only speak for myself. You have every right to you’re own mind, what you believe.
February 4th, 2010 at 19:56
Admin.
Could you please post my comment I made at ~18:30.
Delete the two links if they are the problem.
Thx
February 4th, 2010 at 20:56
So God gave us free will! Never worked out how that could be true. If God is Omnipotent and Omniscient he know, and knew at the point of creation what every individual would do. Therefore we can do no other than what God foresees. That is not free will, it is an illusion of free will. In the extremely unlikely event God exists he cannot condemn anyone for anything no matter how sinful as he caused them to be that way. Only in a Godless universe is there a possibility of true free will, and even then it is not inevitable.
February 4th, 2010 at 20:57
If I were to take any religion, it wouldn’t be from any man who never works except with his mouth.
February 4th, 2010 at 21:01
Tech:
I suppose one can argue the same for planet X.
February 4th, 2010 at 21:04
We all have a free will and when its taken from us its usually taken by force by humans not God.Also if we do not abide by the laws of the land we end up in a jail cell ( freedom gone ).God is still with us no matter what.
February 4th, 2010 at 21:06
Tech
Since you are in the habit of lifting from other Google quote of the day apps (second time to my knowledge) why didn’t you choose this one instead
February 4th, 2010 at 21:11
And anyway, the “never works except with his mouth” quote is just reverse snobbery. I would rather debate theology with an informed academic theologian who understood the nuances of religious thought and could challenge the philosophical arguments atheism poses. The alternative is Solomon
February 4th, 2010 at 21:12
My free will which we all have.
February 4th, 2010 at 21:17
Atheist MC, converse with whoever you choose use you own free will for that as well. God is not a debatable issue with me. Ask a question I’ll try to it answer. But like most on this site you ask and try to answer you question in the same sentence.
February 4th, 2010 at 21:31
Maybe we just get weary of the same apologetics.
O.K one step at a time. How powerful is your God?
February 4th, 2010 at 21:45
He is all powerful.
February 4th, 2010 at 21:51
I make no apology for my God. Also I’m not ashame of the Gospel of my Lord Jesus Christ for it is the power of God onto salvation to everyone that believes.
February 4th, 2010 at 21:51
and how much of his creation does your god control?
February 4th, 2010 at 21:58
He controls 100%. Yes he has everything under control.Oh and by the way my quote of 21:06 wasn’t intended to be taken as my own words sorry about that.
February 4th, 2010 at 22:00
O.K so he has everything under control, and he is all powerful. Can I assume he knows what you are doing now?
February 4th, 2010 at 22:22
Does God know what I’ll have for breakfast tomorrow?
February 4th, 2010 at 22:41
All things dull and ugly,
All creatures short and squat,
All things green and gangrenous,
The lord god made the lot.
Monty Python
February 4th, 2010 at 22:41
<Irony> God knows&ly/Irony>
February 4th, 2010 at 22:42
Bugger why did I know that wouldn’t work on this site.
February 4th, 2010 at 22:43
even assuming I did it right
February 4th, 2010 at 22:44
>
February 4th, 2010 at 22:44
nope it don’t work.
tech?
February 4th, 2010 at 22:45
@Tony Cynic
I’d forgotten that. Thanks dude
February 4th, 2010 at 22:49
LOVE Python! They left money on the table in not mentioning the most lethal creature in existence (at least to people) – Anopheles. Somehow or other, I guess we deserve that scourge.
February 4th, 2010 at 23:11
“Bring out the Holy Hand Granade!”
February 4th, 2010 at 23:18
How does it… um… how does it work?
February 4th, 2010 at 23:21
One MUST count correctly when arming it.
February 4th, 2010 at 23:27
Aaah! in which case I shall consult the Book of Armaments.
February 4th, 2010 at 23:28
And the Lord spake, saying, “First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
February 4th, 2010 at 23:29
Bloody hell, Solomon’s lot wrote this I think
February 5th, 2010 at 2:01
Sounds like an intoxicated Atheist MC babbling sanelessly & answering his own question.
February 5th, 2010 at 2:26
Dear John,
Where did you get that definition of “al-taqiya”?
Its a simple tactic to safeguard one life & is allowed by Allah.
Lets say youre in a lions den.Would you wear a lions or a lamb outfit?
February 5th, 2010 at 6:31
After I read all these posts, I was visited by the lord God who rightly claimed 10 of them were alright and 51 of them weren’t worth a piece of shit.
Ok, in all fairness make it 52 now.
Good night.