6th April 2010

“In a philosophical debate, everybody is equal, and nobody should demand that a pre-existing belief system is beyond reproach and criticism.”

Anon.

34 Responses to “6th April 2010”

  1. solomon's soldier Says:

    this is cheap stuffs here. what is philosophy when it comes to brain and life when God exist out of time? exactly bingo. atheists liars make nonsense of it and myself beliefs inside human minds (not monkeys). nobody can be allow to make mocks of Gods and his words, sentences, paragraphs, essays, novels, thereforth hence however indeed.impossible for non-beliefs to argue with such an simple definitions. hell fire waits for free minds and anal sex.

  2. solomon Says:

    ATTENTION!!!…..keep it up recruit.A good point there.

  3. Steve Says:

    In a philosophical debate, not everybody is equal.

    If you doubt that, look at the two posts above this one.

    I see two very different reasons for posting, one in earnest and one in sport. Now we have to figure out who is playing the Sollie, since my three day sentence is over.

  4. Atheist MC Says:

    Busy day at work today so I am going to substitute my own meagre reason for the superior mind of Greta Christina

    Religion is a hypothesis about the world: the hypothesis that things are the way they are, at least in part, because of supernatural entities or forces acting on the natural world. And there’s no good reason to treat it any differently from any other hypothesis. Which includes pointing out its flaws and inconsistencies, asking its adherents to back it up with solid evidence, making jokes about it when it’s just being silly, offering arguments and evidence for our own competing hypotheses…and trying to persuade people out of it if we think it’s mistaken. It’s persuasion. It’s the marketplace of ideas. Why should religion get a free ride?

  5. tech Says:

    I agree with the Quote

  6. tech Says:

    I’m so Glad That God saved me when he did.

  7. The Heretic Says:

    Someday you should take credit for saving yourself. Empowerment vs. Enslavement. What a wonderful concept!

  8. steve Says:

    But respectfully, Tech, the first half of the quote is simply not true. It does not say that we are all entitled to opinion, it says that “In a philosophical debate, everybody is equal…”.

    Can you honestly say that you think I would be on an equal footing with Einstein? Sollie? There is a whole range of ability, learning, and aptitude that would separate us all.

    I agree with the second half. No belief system should be beyond reproach, whether yours or mine.

  9. Atheist MC Says:

    But respectfully, Tech, the first half of the quote is simply not true.

    D’ya know I hadn’t really picked up on that bit, wrapped up as I was in the pre-existing beliefs schtick. You’re right of course, it’s a banal statement, because without the skills knowledge and experience to back up an argument everything is just opinion. A debate needs an epistemological point of reference, which is why “debating” with some people here is pointless.

  10. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    Alright, Steve… Are you Sollie’s Soldier? Somebody is putting us on because nobody is that nutty/inarticulate. Even Sollie’s points can be deciphered with careful study. 🙂

  11. j sutton Says:

    “what is philosophy when it comes to brain and life when God exist out of time? exactly bingo. atheists liars make nonsense of it and myself beliefs inside human minds (not monkeys).” is nonsense.

    I think perhaps Solly’s first language is not English. If he speaks the way he writes I would consider him psychotic because he displays such chaotic thinking. I think if we continue to respond to these rants we may be making things worse for.

  12. j sutton Says:

    him.

  13. CaptainZero1969 Says:

    If you’ve read Phillip Pullman’s His Dark Materials books, you might like his newest

    The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ

    http://networkedblogs.com/2DVYL

  14. steve Says:

    Nope, Cap’n, I swear to Lady GaGa.
    (seriously, if I must swear to an image, why not hers?)

    I have done such things before, sometimes as punishment and sometimes in sheer frustration, but the post at the top is someone else’s handiwork. Feel free to verify with Admin – it was not me.

    I have posted as ‘Stevemon’ and ‘Monolos’, but that was the extent of it.

    This is an odd quote, in that I think the author’s intent is different than his or her outcome. Cut off everything before the word ‘Nobody’ and it is acceptable.

  15. steve Says:

    Besides, they forgot to mimic the .period placement

    I am impressed that the Admin finds these quotes every day.

    I often try to google them to see some context, and I often fail, especially when it is Mr. Anon that gets quoted, (like today).

  16. tech Says:

    You know Steve sometimes you do make sense. As for Atheist I think his point is on the end of his nose.

  17. steve Says:

    j. sutton that last line was witty, but it might have given your identity away.

    Are You the first
    .poster?

    Frankly, the reason I like this place [AQOTD] is to see some of the philosophical debate mentioned in the quote.

  18. Atheist MC Says:

    Tech: Yes I do have a pointy nose. I also have a nose for a point but your is eluding me.
    The problem is we seldom get philosophical debate, occasionally we get theological debate of the wa ka ka nya nya nya nya nya type. Where’s Oxy when you need him?

  19. steve Says:

    I agree in that it would be nice to get more philosophical debate.

    Having said that, you all know how irresistible the crackpots can be. I liked the last half of today’s quote in that I would welcome more discussion where the imaginary is not held sacrosanct. Shooting fish in a barrel might be fun, but only for a while.

    I would be more than happy to discuss the views of those who believe in a god or gods, but I would prefer that there be some basic level of respect. In other words, if you can tell me WHY you believe instead of endlessly repeating THAT you believe, I am all ears.

    Anyone?

    (Sorry for the caps. I do not know how to do the html stuff. Anybody know a good resource?)

  20. steve Says:

    Never mind, found them:

    HTML commands: italic, bold, link,

    quote

  21. Alavi Hossain Says:

    my two little brothers are muslims, and i asked them this question of why religion should be above criticism. they responded “because people hold religion close to their hearts”. i hold music and art close to my heart…shouldn’t it be wrong to mock my musical taste or make fun of my paintings even if they do suck? absolutely not. who cares if someone is offended, we can be offended by a lot of things besides religious views.

  22. steve Says:

    Gee that worked well. Sorry, I will give it one more thy then quit.

    “[The HTML commands: italic, bold, link,

    quote

    ]”

  23. Holysmokes Says:

    No topic known to the human race should be given a free pass in a debate. Doing so undermines the whole point of debating. It’s unlikely that “people of faith” will ever agree to that though. Wow! I was “politically correct” for once!

    Steve, before you ask, no that wasn’t moa either. I ain’t that sharp.

  24. Atheist MC Says:

    Steve: The only thing wrong is the /url in the link which is a generic. If you want to go somewhere specific best thing is to navigate to the page and cut and paste from the bar.

  25. Atheist MC Says:

    Alavi Hossain: Exactly right. It’s the old dont talk politics and religion meme, but it’s crap. Nothing is sacred in the “marketplace of ideas”. Be prepared to be called out and defend your position if you express an opinion, no one has a right not to be offended, ever.

  26. Michael Says:

    “my two little brothers are muslims, and i asked them this question of why religion should be above criticism. they responded “because people hold religion close to their hearts”. i hold music and art close to my heart…shouldn’t it be wrong to mock my musical taste or make fun of my paintings even if they do suck?”

    Your choices in art and music are purely subjective, and can only be refuted subjectively. I like Strauss a lot, and his waltzes fill me with joy. What is there to argue? One could say “Strauss stinks!” but it’s ultimately meaningless.

    Religion is an idea that claims to explain the world around us and our perceived place, value and purpose in it. It’s not just a matter of personal taste, but a philosophical and scientific viewpoint (Richard Dawkins said that “a universe with a god is fundamentally different than one without;” the validity of religion is a science question and subject to its scrutiny) that needs to be backed with reason and solid evidence, no matter how dearly held.

  27. solomon Says:

    You all rant pointlessly forgetting who could have create everything and this great universe.You blantant liars can claim all the intricate designs of things or complicated systems can be run by your silly word ‘Nature’.Nobody would buy that.Condemn fools!

  28. The Heretic Says:

    Solomon, consider yourself condemned.

    Oops, rule #1/#2 Violation. I just have such issues with human stupidity.

  29. solomon Says:

    Dear Michael,
    You seem to make more sense.

    Well as for Alavi,
    You hold music and art close to your ass…thats it.And thats the way you think…implying everythins’ just for fun & a plaything.How do you feel when others make fun or mockery out of your art and music?How can you earn your self respect when you yourself make fun of something that you love.You’re just a great bluffer.

  30. solomon Says:

    The Heretic=lousy fool,condemned,lifetime Liar

  31. alhossain Says:

    Michael,
    just because someone believes that the world is 6000 years old, or that a snake can talk doesn’t mean i should respect that. some things are simply not true and need to be mocked. we know the earth is not 6000 years old. and although we cannot prove the snake didnt talk, that doesnt mean we should put it into serious consideration. nobody seems to get worked up when the philosophies of epicuris or plato are criticized. even if they did, it doesnt mean there needs to be a barrier on its discussion. and like you said yourself “the validity of religion is a science question and subject to its scrutiny) that needs to be backed with reason and solid evidence, no matter how dearly held”. im in complete agreement with that. if someone were to believe deeply in greek gods and their stories literally, isn’t it obvious as to why i should put their opinion on a pedestal?

  32. Alavi Hossain Says:

    sorry i put my name as “alhossain” instead of “Alavi Hossain” earlier.
    solomon,
    i wasn’t making fun of myself. i was making fun of those who do take criticism so seriously on matters such as religion. i am at least open to the idea that my musical taste is not the “right” one or that my art isnt the best. do u think someone like jimi hendrix didn’t take music seriously? that was his whole life! and i would fun of him as well if he told me i cannot criticize his style due to the fact that he holds it close to his heart.

  33. solomon Says:

    Alavi,
    You might compare your art or music with fun or mockery but don’t treat religion the same.Religion is no plaything.Jimi hendrix might tell you from his grave that he does’nt mind you criticizing his music but would you know what he really feels?

  34. solomon Says:

    Every gods creature have their own functions Alavi.Its possible if God wants snakes to talk.But who would want to hear the human voice after that?